(March 10, 2013 at 10:44 pm)jstrodel Wrote: The Bible only stones women for rape in versions that you read in the English language that are being read by atheists who don't know what the word exegesis means that use principles of "common sense interpretation" developed by Penn Gillette.

Atheism is, fundamental, at its core, an anti-intellectual movement.

Atheism is just the lack of belief in a god or gods. That's it. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Now that meth you seem to be hyped up on is anti-intellectual. It kills brain cells sir and from the looks of comments you leave it doesn't look like you had too many to start with.

That is one definition of atheism, another definition of atheism is 22 year olds on the internet who don't know what the word exegesis means posting cut and paste verses from the Old Testament when they don't own a single commentary and they don't even know basic Bible interpretation methodology (which is used in secular critiques of scripture as well as religious)

No, that is just a definition you drew up in this bitch fit you're having.

Do you own any Bible commentaries? Do you know what the word exegesis means? Do you know who Bruce Metzger or FF Bruce are, or why Westminister Theological Seminary split from Princeton theological seminary? Do you know who Maimonides is? Do you know what the Septuagint is? Have you ever heard of the Masoteric text of the Bible and do you know how it relates to the Dead sea scrolls? Have you ever read through the Bible? How many times? Have you ever done a study of one book of the Bible, perhaps one of those Old Testament books that atheists love to quote that are so difficult and scary with a commentary?

The average atheist evangelist has less understanding of the Bible than a 1st year Bible student. They are quick to ridicule anyone who doesn't know about biology or physics but they fail to hold themselves to the same standard.

Of course, this is not true for all atheists. I am sure some people on this forum know the answer to some of these questions. But most atheists do not.

(March 2, 2013 at 6:32 pm)jstrodel Wrote: Where I live, there are two organizations that care for the poor more than anyone else: the salvation army and the rescue mission. The Christian church does a ton to help the poor.

Why do you feel that you are allowed to lie? When you say that the Christian church does not help the poor, you realize that you are lying, don't you? You are lying through your teeth. Do you care if you are a liar, or are you cynical enough to say things even if you don't know if they are true?

Compared to all the damage the Christian church has done, and continues to do, to oppress, demean and destroy the poor in this world, from the evangelical influence in American politics to the death and starvation of countless thousands in Africa because the Catholic church acts to prohibit access to contraception, not to mention popular hit songs from the Christianity Greatest Hits album "Justify three centuries of African Slavery using the Bible" and "Native Americans make great slaves too (Kill the rest)". Whatever good is done by Christian organizations is insignificant in comparison to their 2,000 year reign of terror.

Christianity is western civilization. If you hate it so much, why not abandon it completely and separate yourself from its blessings?

That's why I'm glad to see dioceses filing bankruptcy because they have to pay the victims of their predator priests. But don't go claiming about how wonderful the fuckers are because they take up collections for the poor. I'm sure the fuckers take a percentage for themselves.
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If by "fuckers" you mean priests, yes, they do take a portion of the money for themselves. That is a portion of their income, which is not much to begin with. They need to take some of the money to be able to sustain themselves. However, most of the money does go towards different charities. It varies on a weekly basis where the money goes.

Thanks, Egross for the clarification. I find it funny how they still preach about the whole Bible (sometimes even make each point in their sermons a word by word thing) when it wasn't even meant for them. On the other hand, when something like this comes up, oh... it wasn't meant for them, it was for the other peeps. They should just make a new book with bits and pieces that they like. Perhaps an app where they can personalize the Bible where it fits their personal needs. Just sayin'!

(March 11, 2013 at 12:36 am)jstrodel Wrote: Christianity is western civilization. If you hate it so much, why not abandon it completely and separate yourself from its blessings?

Can you, just for a little while, disconnect yourself from that pipeline of debunked christian apologetics you've got yourself hooked up to? I'm sure there's a real, genuine person underneath, but so far all we've seen is the bullshit.

(March 10, 2013 at 10:13 pm)jstrodel Wrote: The Bible punishes rape with death. Read Lev 22. Read the sermon on the mount or 1 Cor 6.

You will not find a single Christian leader in the world who teaches that the Bible accepts rape.

You keep saying how the OT, first you incorrectly used Deut. to prove a point, where it says the opposite, and now you use Lev. 22 that says nothing to support you either, unless you are somehow linking an offering with crushed gonads as being unpleasing to the Lord for a sacrifie, with rape!

Have you ever really studied these texts, or are you just citing someone's footnotes?

But maybe you did a typo. Maybe you meant Deut. 22 and typed Lev. It happens.

First of all, the Torah never uses the word for rape (אנס or any variant), so rape is never mentioned. From the Biblical perspective, a woman is property, and so taking the contractually binding ownership and ignoring that and either giving your goods away (as a woman) that you no longer own, or taking them from another who has already purchased them, is a deadly crime.

I also, elsewhere, did an extensive explanation of the 4 cases in question to prove that it never spoke of someone being killed for rape. It just isn't in there.

Instead, the Torah will always use the word "to lay with" whenever it is expressing any forbidden sexual act, and in this case, you don't own it, you don't get to use it. So while the case of a man laying with a woman, taking what was not his, maybe he seduced her, maybe he raped her. In either case, he stole that which was not his to steal, and it is for that forbidden act, not how he did it, that he is killed. It is a special type of "theft" or misuse of property that could result in a child of unknown status.

While one could make the argument of "rape" for the case where it adds that she was under threat, it is apparent that he was being executed for his taking and was not being executed for rape, since, he is also executed if she willingly participated, and at no time, does an unmarried woman who was not a virgin and not under contract, is mentioned in the context of the death penalty, or even a 1 shekel fine.

While I will not debate you on what the Christian texts may say, since that is not my specialty, they stand upon the older texts that do not condemn rape, just condemn the theft/use of an already contractually obligated vagina.

And in the end, if her father chose to do so, the real victim of this could be forced to marry the bastard and never be divorced from him for all of her life.

Oh, and just because a Christian leader will not say it, does not mean that it is not in there. It is. And remember that a na'arah, or "young girl" could be as young as three years old (less than that, a different term is used). erusin, the contractual binding of her goods to the ownership of another can be done as early as three, although it would be years before the buyer would pick up his purchase to bring her home. Sort of like giving money to a horse breeder and picking up the mare when she is old enough to start breeding.

So the penalty for forcing yourself on a 5 year old girl who was not yet betrothed is the normal purchase price, plus 50 shekels, and if the father doesn't want you to have her, you get to go along on your business.

Not a bad deal.