(March 22, 2013 at 12:48 pm)Kayenneh Wrote:

(March 22, 2013 at 12:47 pm)jstrodel Wrote: It is real.

Ok, let's take this slowly.


PROVE


IT

Shall we try again? On the same line this time:

Prove it.

I challenge you right now to prove definitively that you are from the place where you are from. And if you post a picture of your house and proof of residency, and you send 5 or 6 copies of evidence, prove that those have not been forged.

I want replicable evidence that I can put in a lab and repeat, given the information you provide.

And after you do that, I want you to prove that you can link what you provide definatively to your IP address, that no one else is using your computer using a remote access, that your ISP has not forged the documents.

And then, I want you to prove that you are not just a thought being implanted in my head.

Proof is a cultural construction that is used in a variety of ways to assess different truth claims. There is no universal claim anyone has and skepticism is an easy enough tool for the dishonest to use to prevent them from having to take seriously information that would challenge them to accept a different course of life.

Of course you can't prove any of this. But if you want to learn about God, read the book I posted about George Muller. Visit charismatic ministries. Don't try and prove or disprove anything, just talk to people and try and understand what is going on.

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(March 22, 2013 at 1:23 pm)Mr Infidel Wrote: jstrodel, why are you deflecting?

How am I deflecting?

(March 22, 2013 at 12:40 pm)jstrodel Wrote: Do all your beliefs about everything come from science? Do you believe it is possible to listen to someone and just hear what they have to say, without passing any judgement or making any theory about their mental state or creating some new "hypothesis" to justify your atheist position?

I think that listening without applying critical thinking is what allowed religion to proliferate.

This is a direct quote from Strudel:

I was involved in a demonic ritual in which I told an evil spirit that it could rule over me. I gave the evil spirit dominion over me through a sexual ritual. During this time, I would spend long periods of time communicating with evil spirits, who would move and influence the world around me. I would feel the spirits touch me and talk to me.

For 3 years I did not have control over my body. I would walk around, and try and move my arms and hands and try as hard as I could to stop myself from moving around and I could not do so. I have felt many evil spirits try and hold on to me. They possessed my body for several years, like I said. I collected disability because I could not work. I could feel the spirits inside of me.

This is what Wikipedia has to say about schizophrenia:

Schizophrenia (/ˌskɪtsɵˈfrɛniə/ or /ˌskɪtsɵˈfriːniə/) is a mental disorder characterized by a breakdown of thought processes and by a deficit of typical emotional responses.[1] Common symptoms include auditory hallucinations, paranoid or bizarre delusions, or disorganized speech and thinking, and it is accompanied by significant social or occupational dysfunction. The onset of symptoms typically occurs in young adulthood, with a global lifetime prevalence of about 0.3–0.7%.[2] Diagnosis is based on observed behavior and the patient's reported experiences.

Do you have critical thinking regarding religious ideas as well as science or religious only?

Would you listen to them, or would you just dismiss anyone that views things differently as being closed-minded and biased as you have done repeatedly?

(March 22, 2013 at 1:27 pm)Baalzebutt Wrote: This is a direct quote from Strudel:

I was involved in a demonic ritual in which I told an evil spirit that it could rule over me. I gave the evil spirit dominion over me through a sexual ritual. During this time, I would spend long periods of time communicating with evil spirits, who would move and influence the world around me. I would feel the spirits touch me and talk to me.

For 3 years I did not have control over my body. I would walk around, and try and move my arms and hands and try as hard as I could to stop myself from moving around and I could not do so. I have felt many evil spirits try and hold on to me. They possessed my body for several years, like I said. I collected disability because I could not work. I could feel the spirits inside of me.

This is what Wikipedia has to say about schizophrenia:

Schizophrenia (/ˌskɪtsɵˈfrɛniə/ or /ˌskɪtsɵˈfriːniə/) is a mental disorder characterized by a breakdown of thought processes and by a deficit of typical emotional responses.[1] Common symptoms include auditory hallucinations, paranoid or bizarre delusions, or disorganized speech and thinking, and it is accompanied by significant social or occupational dysfunction. The onset of symptoms typically occurs in young adulthood, with a global lifetime prevalence of about 0.3–0.7%.[2] Diagnosis is based on observed behavior and the patient's reported experiences.

How does anything I wrote relate to that? I said I didn't have control of my body for around 3 years. You posted that I had hallucinations. How are the two related?

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(March 22, 2013 at 1:28 pm)Faith No More Wrote: Would you listen to them, or would you just dismiss anyone that views things differently as being closed-minded and biased as you have done repeatedly?

There is not one true belief that I am aware of that I have rejected without deeply considering its merits and relating it as best as I can to everything else I know in the last 6 or 7 years. This is not necessarily the best way to approach everything, to believe that you know better than everyone else, but this is the way that I have lived for years and years.

(March 22, 2013 at 1:19 pm)jstrodel Wrote: Can you cite a single example of any crime in history which has been judged through primarily assessing replicable evidence? Epistemology is culturally and contextually defined you know.

pathology, blood spatter evidence, fingerprints, ballistics, tire tracks, semen, DNA...

You do realize that there is an entire branch of science, called forensics, that deals with replicable evidence? Strangely enough, virtually every crime is assessed using forensic evidence. Your argument is not only invalid, it is completely ignorant.

(March 22, 2013 at 1:27 pm)jstrodel Wrote: Do you have critical thinking regarding religious ideas as well as science or religious only?

To both. Science is built on critical thinking, religion is based on faith and the acceptance of something beyond detection and beyond science. Science doesn't work without critical thinking. Religion can only work without it.

(March 22, 2013 at 1:24 pm)jstrodel Wrote: I challenge you right now to prove definitively that you are from the place where you are from. And if you post a picture of your house and proof of residency, and you send 5 or 6 copies of evidence, prove that those have not been forged.

I want replicable evidence that I can put in a lab and repeat, given the information you provide.

And after you do that, I want you to prove that you can link what you provide definatively to your IP address, that no one else is using your computer using a remote access, that your ISP has not forged the documents.

And then, I want you to prove that you are not just a thought being implanted in my head.

Proof is a cultural construction that is used in a variety of ways to assess different truth claims. There is no universal claim anyone has and skepticism is an easy enough tool for the dishonest to use to prevent them from having to take seriously information that would challenge them to accept a different course of life.

Of course you can't prove any of this. But if you want to learn about God, read the book I posted about George Muller. Visit charismatic ministries. Don't try and prove or disprove anything, just talk to people and try and understand what is going on.

Nevertheless, those cultural standards of proof have proven themselves time and again and tend to be a reasonably reliable way to determine the facts of a situation. Therefore, providing evidence which falls within those standards is the way we operate as human.

Quite trying to dodge the issue and present your evidence.

That is true that they use forensic labs, but that is not the same as replicable scientific evidence. There is no way to replicate a guilty verdict in a court, which is based on whatever the evidence at hand points to.

The existence of some forensic laboratory tools which methods can be tested and proved does not mean that those methods are the main way that guilt is assessed.

Quote:Virtually every crime is assessed using forensic evidence

This is a lie. Of course I am aware of forensic evidence, but you missed my point and did not realize the subtle difference between a process that is influenced to some degree by a laboratory science (like forensics) and the fact that a verdict is not reached at all through these methods. There is not forensic evidence available in most cases, and even when it is, laboratory methods do not deliver the final verdict, a jury or a judge does.

The epistemology of a court room may rely on replicable methods, but it itself is not a replicable test, by its nature. To ask for it to be would be to deny the non-laboratory nature of life.

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(March 22, 2013 at 1:33 pm)Tonus Wrote:

(March 22, 2013 at 1:27 pm)jstrodel Wrote: Do you have critical thinking regarding religious ideas as well as science or religious only?

To both. Science is built on critical thinking, religion is based on faith and the acceptance of something beyond detection and beyond science. Science doesn't work without critical thinking. Religion can only work without it.

Very profound. This settles the issue of whether God exists or not and will be remembered next to Augustine, Newton, Descartes, Bacon, Aquinas, Kierkegaard and other great intellectual giants as the definitive statement of the nature of the relationship between faith and reason.

Do you think I could get your autograph?