I'm sure the mothers of suffering children everywhere are glad to know that there is a reason their baby is suffering. They've been sacrificed so some other twat can earn his "praise".

But the byproduct must be weighed into the total. To determine suffering is valuable as a whole you have to come to the conclusion that a child being sexually abused is worth the gain. I cannot come to that conclusion.

Well most mothers believe there is a purpose for the world as it is (which includes suffering of children). They may not know what is, but believe there is a purpose.

(March 27, 2013 at 9:32 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Well most mothers believe there is a purpose for the world as it is (which includes suffering of children). They may not know what is, but believe there is a purpose.

That doesn't make it correct, or less ridiculous.

(March 27, 2013 at 9:32 am)Faith No More Wrote: But the byproduct must be weighed into the total. To determine suffering is valuable as a whole you have to come to the conclusion that a child being sexually abused is worth the gain. I cannot come to that conclusion.

Sure, but to prove the problem of evil argument, you have to prove that a child being sexually abused is not worth the gain of the over all opportunity of praise in the system.

So at the least, we can say, the problem of evil, doesn't seem to be the super argument it first seems to be, with this defense.

At the very least, this defense at least humbles the problem of evil argument.

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Anyways, I'm off. Will be back in about 12 hours.

(March 27, 2013 at 9:34 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Sure, but to prove the problem of evil argument, you have to prove that a child being sexually abused is not worth the gain of the over all opportunity of praise in the system.

It sounds as if you're saying that good and evil are part of a zero sum system that must be balanced out. I don't think there is anything wrong with a system that encourages people to make the choice to challenge themselves (suffering, if you will) yet does not impose suffering on those who do not deserve it. By all means, reward the guy who practices on his guitar until his fingers bleed. But please do not balance it on the psyche of an abused child.

MysticKnight Wrote:Sure, but to prove the problem of evil argument, you have to prove that a child being sexually abused is not worth the gain of the over all opportunity of praise in the system.

So at most, we can say, the problem of evil, doesn't seem to be the super argument it first seems to be, with this defense.

At the very least, this defense at least humbles the problem of evil argument.

Is there any level of suffering that you would deem so egregious that it could not be worth any gain? Because that is how I see certain types of suffering such as that of a child being abused.

Told you. Weirdly Evil Disney.

(March 27, 2013 at 9:32 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Well most mothers believe there is a purpose for the world as it is (which includes suffering of children). They may not know what is, but believe there is a purpose.

[Citation needed]

I have never seen any atheist argue for why suffering is absolutely related to a universal conception of ethics, they just assume it, relying on the shared assumptions of the Christian worldview. Very dirty trick.