(April 11, 2013 at 10:42 pm)A_Nony_Mouse Wrote: Passover (with variations of pascal in Romance languages) is an interesting case. As we know Moses and get out of Egypt are myths. What was Passover before the Moses myth was invented? Of was the celebration invented along with the myth?

Passover IS the myth. The two are inextricably intertwined. During the Seder, the story of the Exodus is read from the Haggadah, along with prayers and descriptions of ritual movements, such as hand washing, wine drinking, breaking matzos, etc.

Passover contains things, like eggs and herbs, which most certainly came down from prior polytheistic celebrations, but the feast of Passover itself had no (as far as I know - Min, come in and correct me if I'm wrong) prior incarnation as a 'spring festival'. There is no dying or resurrection or celebration of sowing or anything within it. We have other holidays that celebrate such, like Sukkot for the harvest. This one was created as far as I know to celebrate a fictitious exodus.

[shudders]

It's really strange - I was going to include more information about Passover, but lately memories of the prayers and rituals in holidays and certain instances have been filtering through despite not having been to temple in ages and the sensory memory is disturbing me...so I won't dig further.

(April 12, 2013 at 2:01 pm)thesummerqueen Wrote: Passover IS the myth. The two are inextricably intertwined. During the Seder, the story of the Exodus is read from the Haggadah, along with prayers and descriptions of ritual movements, such as hand washing, wine drinking, breaking matzos, etc.

Passover contains things, like eggs and herbs, which most certainly came down from prior polytheistic celebrations, but the feast of Passover itself had no (as far as I know - Min, come in and correct me if I'm wrong) prior incarnation as a 'spring festival'. There is no dying or resurrection or celebration of sowing or anything within it. We have other holidays that celebrate such, like Sukkot for the harvest. This one was created as far as I know to celebrate a fictitious exodus.

Are you suggesting that people would begin an annual celebration based on nothing at all? The Exodus was passed down orally, so it must have been pretty important to the Hebrews.

(April 12, 2013 at 2:19 pm)Undeceived Wrote: Are you suggesting that people would begin an annual celebration based on nothing at all? The Exodus was passed down orally, so it must have been pretty important to the Hebrews.

[Sweetest of smiles] well you do celebrate the resurrection of Christ, after all....

(April 12, 2013 at 2:21 pm)thesummerqueen Wrote:

(April 12, 2013 at 2:19 pm)Undeceived Wrote: Are you suggesting that people would begin an annual celebration based on nothing at all? The Exodus was passed down orally, so it must have been pretty important to the Hebrews.

[Sweetest of smiles] well you do celebrate the resurrection of Christ, after all....

I'm waiting for a contemporary example of humans bearing this kind of psychology. Can you show that people actually act this way?

I just did, though I doubt you'll recognize it, being as you still think your myth to be truth.

(April 12, 2013 at 2:26 pm)thesummerqueen Wrote: I just did, though I doubt you'll recognize it, being as you still think your myth to be truth.

I'm sorry. Have you refuted Jesus's resurrection?

(April 12, 2013 at 2:28 pm)Undeceived Wrote:

(April 12, 2013 at 2:26 pm)thesummerqueen Wrote: I just did, though I doubt you'll recognize it, being as you still think your myth to be truth.

I'm sorry. Have you refuted Jesus's resurrection?

I'm sorry - have you provided any evidence beyond hearsay that it happened?

I have four historical accounts and scores of 1st-2nd century references. That's more than 99.9% of historical figures. You need to show why we should not trust these accounts. Provide a contemporary scenario in which entire events were fabricated and traditions resulted from them. A scenario that you can prove.

(April 12, 2013 at 2:37 pm)Undeceived Wrote: I have four historical accounts and scores of 1st-2nd century references. That's more than 99.9% of historical figures. You need to show why we should not trust these accounts. Provide a contemporary scenario in which entire events were fabricated and traditions resulted from them. A scenario that you can prove.

I shan't go into an argument that you've surely already had ad nauseam with other forum members here. You have the Bible and and handful of references, none of which date to when your supposed messiah - not even the messiah my people spoke of, but a hastily patched up one to fit your own sniveling needs - was supposed to be around, leading to more hearsay.

My my. Picking on me saying that the exodus didn't happen because people don't just start doing things over nothing.

Mormonism started over Joseph Smith's hearsay.

The anti-vax movement started over Andrew Wakefield's hearsay.

Countless Indian gurus gain followers over their hearsay.

Fox News viewers believe whatever bullshit comes out of Bill O'Reilly's mouth without so much as a fact check.

People on Facebook spread links with warnings of supposed dangers without checking the factual basis behind them.

There are people will follow and do anything according to the utterances of someone who sounds like they know what they're talking about, because many people find it easier to follow than they do to lead, and because no one likes to admit that they don't know know what the fuck is going on and thus cling to the one person who seems to.

Could you be more specific? Which Indian gurus? And were entire events fabricated? Did people respond with a change in lifestyle? The only case I see that matches that description is Mormonism, which arose out of warfare as much as it did Smith's words.