But what's the alternative? Removing kids from religious homes that are non-abusive? Nah. Don't get me wrong, I like government, but I still wouldn't want to see the government removing kids from non-abusive homes because the parents make the kid go to church.

I think you are over-estimating the atheist position here. In the US non-believers make up about 20% of the population. That leaves a weighty, 80% majority that sees no problem in parents making their kids attend church services. Its a losing battle at this time.

(April 13, 2013 at 8:59 pm)festive1 Wrote: But what's the alternative? Removing kids from religious homes that are non-abusive? Nah. Don't get me wrong, I like government, but I still wouldn't want to see the government removing kids from non-abusive homes because the parents make the kid go to church.

Ebg wrote...
But if religion is harmful...shouldn't the children be removed from religious homes on the basis of mental abuse, regardless of popularity? Would that include all kinds of religion (like voodoo,fire worship,ancestory,sorcery, witchcraft), or only those that the goverment designates as harmful (like christianity)?

(April 12, 2013 at 11:07 pm)ebg Wrote: Most people fail to understand the concept of separation of church and state.If I am a politician...can I consult my wife as to the position I should have on a certain bill? How about my daughter? Can I seek her advice? How about the guy who works at Mcdonalds? If yes...then of course I can seek the advice of a clergy.

You can seek advice of a clergyman for his experiences as a person, not as a spokesman for the apocalypse cult he represents. A person's religious beliefs do not warrant supporting anything which would allow our government to legislate according to the moral tenets of any religion.

What about a person whose beleif is based on star wars,or Harry Potter, or astrology...is that o.k.?

(April 13, 2013 at 10:03 pm)ebg Wrote: .
Ebg wrote...
But if religion is harmful...shouldn't the children be removed from religious homes on the basis of mental abuse, regardless of popularity? Would that include all kinds of religion (like voodoo,fire worship,ancestory,sorcery, witchcraft), or only those that the goverment designates as harmful (like christianity)?

You aren't speaking of separation of church and state anymore. You're speaking of people's right to religious freedom, and that freedom includes indoctrinating one's children. I see where you're coming from, but, frankly, if the only type of "abuse" a child suffers is being forced to go to church... Well, I can think of many, much worse scenarios. To categorize a typical religious home as abuse is also insulting to those who come from truly abusive homes. I say "typical" because there are some religious homes that are abusive. I don't agree with parents who threaten their kids with god to ensure their kids' compliance, but I also don't agree with parents who sleep train their newborns either. My sensibilities mean little to society at large.

Are you saying then that separation of church and state is a contradiction with freedom of religion. Then how can religion in public schools be banned? What constitute you being offended by my opinion, and me be really harmful to an abused person mental health?

(April 13, 2013 at 11:13 pm)ebg Wrote: What about a person whose beleif is based on star wars,or Harry Potter, or astrology...is that o.k.?

It's okay until someone insists that a law should be passed which forces me to adjust my behavior so that it is acceptable according to the mystic code of the jedi, or demands that the government officially adopt or subsidize a belief in midichlorians and the Force by making Star Wars part of the science curriculum.

(April 13, 2013 at 11:55 pm)Ryantology Wrote:

(April 13, 2013 at 11:13 pm)ebg Wrote: What about a person whose beleif is based on star wars,or Harry Potter, or astrology...is that o.k.?

It's okay until someone insists that a law should be passed which forces me to adjust my behavior so that it is acceptable according to the mystic code of the jedi, or demands that the government officially adopt or subsidize a belief in midichlorians and the Force by making Star Wars part of the science curriculum.

What about a christian? Not them, right?


W

(April 14, 2013 at 12:03 am)ebg Wrote: What about a christian? Not them, right?

Good point. They're not much different from fans of Harry Potter or Star Wars.

(April 13, 2013 at 11:50 pm)ebg Wrote: Are you saying then that separation of church and state is a contradiction with freedom of religion. Then how can religion in public schools be banned? What constitute you being offended by my opinion, and me be really harmful to an abused person mental health?

No, I'm speaking of the difference between the freedom of private practice of one's religion in one's home and through opting to attend religious services. This includes parents' prerogative to raise their children within their religious tradition. As opposed to the teaching of religion in a public sphere such as a public school. These are very different. If you can't appreciate that, you've got problems.