(May 1, 2013 at 7:26 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: Thor doesn’t exist.

But we have sacred writings...

[Re: the O.P.] Oh God is dead alright. I unplugged him when I was 10. He was alive and well in my psyche one day, unplugged and discarded the next. R. I. P. God. You, the E. Bunny, Santa and the tooth Fairy were loads of fun.

Or maybe God and the others live on in the fantasies of little children everywhere and in the fantasies of those with Peter Pan ambitions?

Quote:Thor doesn’t exist.

But... But I like Thor.

The funny thing is, even most "believers" seem to act as if god is dead (or never existed in the first place). They know he will do nothing. Are they really expecting that to suddenly change when they die?

I doubt it. I think most "believers", deep down, think the same thing non-theists think:

When it's over, it's over. And that's why we all live life as if it's the only one will ever have.

Only the most deluded religious fanatics actually think they have something coming after the grave. The rest are just hoping without any real conviction and covering their basis in the meantime.

(May 1, 2013 at 8:56 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Logic is a tool to tools like you. You twist it beyond reason and claim it proves the implausible.

Fuck off.

Such hostility. What is logic? Where does it come from? Has it always applied? Does it apply everywhere? Will it apply in the future? Good luck answering those questions in a manner that is consistent with your deficient view of reality.

(May 1, 2013 at 9:46 pm)Esquilax Wrote: You're really just going to stop your imagination dead at the point that agrees with your beliefs? That's not how this works. We're already basically talking fanfiction with your god anyway, and since it's all unverifiable nonsense to begin with, what's to stop one from just saying that, I dunno, an even more omnipotent magical being suddenly popped into existence and killed your god with his double magic powers? Or that god tried his hand at creation again, fucked it up again, and ended up making something powerful enough to kill him?

You’re not using the word omnipotence correctly. It’s not logically possible for God to make a being more powerful than He is because ontologically He is by definition the most powerful being possible. Why is it so difficult for you all to formulate a question that even makes logical sense?

Quote: None of this is any more implausible than the original god claim you've failed to demonstrate, so why the fuck not?

No, unlike the existence of God, your hypotheticals are logically impossible.

Quote:Ooh, if only you'd follow that logic to it's natural conclusion...

That’s interesting considering the fact that you do not know how I logically arrived at the conclusion that Thor does not exist now do you?

Quote:

Laughing at someone is an irrational response, so thank you for supporting my claim. It’s like we planned that.

Quote:Would you like to demonstrate literally any part of this wild ass assertion you just made?

Sure, it’s not difficult at all. Since smax granted us the existence of the Christian God we can use His word to learn of His attributes. One of those attributes is upholding His creation through His sustaining power (Gen 8, Hebrews 1, John 5), since Humans are part of that creation their very existence must be contingent upon God’s existence. God’s existence being non-contingent is something that is ontologically true.

(May 1, 2013 at 10:25 pm)smax Wrote: Sorry about the implication there, but if the shoe fits.....

Don’t apologize for implying my IQ is above average.

Quote:Prove it.

Easy.

P1. If Yahweh exists, Thor does not exist.
P2. Yahweh exists.
C. Therefore, Thor does not exist.

There’s a logical proof that Thor does not exist.

Quote:True, it didn't take much effort to make a mockery of god.

That’s an irrational appeal to ridicule, you’re just not a very rational person are you smax?

Quote:Okay, so then how did god come to be?

Do you know what a non-contingent being is? Apparently not.

Quote:It is in a joke.

…maybe an illogical joke.

(May 2, 2013 at 12:25 am)FallentoReason Wrote: I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous. "By definition" does it mean within this thread I'm technically a Christian because I can make statements about your obviously real and existent god as if I believe in it? No, of course not, just like I can say Darth Vader is Luke's father without actually believing this is a truth about reality. In short, those that don't believe your claims/beliefs are able to communicate with you via granting a hypothetical environment for their arguments to reside in. This isn't the same as believing in your god, which you think it is the case.

I never said you have to believe in my God, but in order to ask the question, “How do you know God is not dead?” you have to assume God exists. If you do not believe God exists then do not bother asking such an absurd question.

Quote:Muslims do better than that. They claim everyone is born a Muslim. People exist, not just Muslims, but people, therefore Allah exists.

No, God sustaining Humanity is also a Christian doctrine so the Muslims didn’t “one up” anybody. This thread is about Yahweh, not Allah, so that’s irrelevant to the discussion.

Quote: You don't like this reasoning? Then you don't have any justification to accept that existent belief in the Christian god means the Christian god exists. No red herring here, just simply playing by your special-pleaded logic.

If the point of this thread was, “How do you know Allah is not dead?” then your point would be relevant. However, it is a red herring, the OP granted the existence of Yahweh, he never granted the existence of Allah. Since for the purpose of this thread we are assuming that Yahweh exists (and therefore Allah does not exist) we can certainly use the fact that people still exist and believe in Him to prove that He still exists. Not only this, but we can use the ontological truth that Yahweh cannot die. You know that you can’t win either way, that’s why you keep being irrational by tossing out red herrings and points that are utterly irrelevant to the discussion. Once smax granted us the existence of Yahweh this debate was over.

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(May 2, 2013 at 11:55 am)smax Wrote: I think most "believers", deep down, think the same thing non-theists think:

How do you know what other people really are thinking? How is that verifiable?

Quote: When it's over, it's over.

Since you’ve claimed numerous times you only believe in that which is verifiable, how do you verify this claim? Or do you not actually believe it?

Quote: The rest are just hoping without any real conviction and covering their basis in the meantime.

If people know that there is nothing after death then why would they need to “cover their basis” (it’s really bases, but I didn’t want to misquote you)?

Quote:P1. If Yahweh exists, Thor does not exist.
P2. Yahweh exists.
C. Therefore, Thor does not exist.

There’s a logical proof that Thor does not exist.

(May 2, 2013 at 4:36 pm)Joel Wrote: I see what you did there (image removed by SW)

How else would you prove a Universal negative without using a Universal positive that negates it? That’s how it’s done.

I could just as easily say, though:

P1. If Thor exists, Yahweh does not exist.
P2. Thor exists.
C. Therefore, Yahweh does not exist.

Thor existing would make me a lot happier than Yahweh existing.

(May 2, 2013 at 5:00 pm)Gearbreak Wrote: Thor existing would make me a lot happier than Yahweh existing.

Didn't you read P2? Thor does exist. Be happy!