Wow, what a fucking depressing read.

(May 17, 2013 at 3:23 pm)cratehorus Wrote:

(May 14, 2013 at 2:21 pm)festive1 Wrote: DRC became independent in 1960. Up to that point it was ruled by one of the most brutal colonial regimes in Africa, and perhaps the world. Mobutu wasn't any better, and his regime ended in 1997. Under both of these regimes there were enormous human rights' violations. There has effectively been civil wars since 1997. I don't think it's hard to see that the current state of things in DRC are so violent because, in part, of it's very violent, repressive, not-so-distant past. How can a group of people who have known nothing but violence and repression from their governments, suddenly be peaceful?? That takes at least a few generations to work out, and a lot of willingness on all sides to stop the violence. It's just not there yet.

western governments do not care who owns or runs the Congo these degenerates only serve their multinational conglomerates in and attempt to extract as much wealth from africa as possible, the congo is the richest mining territory int the world, so why would they care if M23 ruled the congo or not? why would they fight against a United Congo?

You answered your own question. The coorporate interest is to just extract what they can and leave. That's hard to do when there is an armed militia attacking the mines, killing or essentially enslaving the workforce, and in some cases sabatoging the expensive infrastructure. Too much in-fighting in Congo. It's not stable enough for investments to always pay off.

---

(May 17, 2013 at 4:14 pm)NoraBrimstone Wrote: Wow, what a fucking depressing read.

Welcome to the political situation that is Africa. At least in my experience (I visited Kenya some years ago, my husband travels there frequently for work, though not this year, the sequester forced him to slash the travel budget ), the people tend to be upbeat and just try to make their way as they can, no matter their limiting circumstances.

Quote: It's not stable enough for investments to always pay off.

Funny how we always hear a lot of shit about how entrepreneurs take all the risks..... except they seem to avoid risk like the plague.

(May 17, 2013 at 5:06 pm)festive1 Wrote: You answered your own question. The coorporate interest is to just extract what they can and leave. That's hard to do when there is an armed militia attacking the mines, killing or essentially enslaving the workforce, and in some cases sabatoging the expensive infrastructure. Too much in-fighting in Congo. It's not stable enough for investments to always pay off.

exactly corps interest is too extract what they can and leave the so-called democratically elected congo national government allows them too therefore they stay in power

Congo's $24 trillion mineral wealth: Corporations vs M23

http://www.hangthebankers.com/congos-24-...ns-vs-m23/

Quote:Global financial markets don’t pay much attention to the conflict in the Democratic Republic of Congo. They should. The central African country produces major quantities of tin and tungsten, about half of the world’s cobalt output and about three percent of the world’s copper and gold, according to the U.S. Geological Survey.

Consumer electronics makers would also be well-advised to watch developments in the war-torn nation, which is a key supplier of columbite-tantalite, or coltan for short—a mineral ore used to manufacture capacitors found in cellphones, tablet computers, laptops and practically every mobile device on the market today.

Like Sierra Leone with its notorious ‘blood diamonds’, DRC Congo has been blighted by the stigma of ‘conflict minerals’ ’ where the proceeds from resources extracted from mines controlled by government or rebel forces are used to fund war. ‘Conflict-free’ certification programs and legislation have sought to reduce market share of resources mined in war zones but convoluted supply-chain networks have allowed buyers to exploit loopholes in the system.


A question for the immediate term is to what degree the unrest will affect production from major assets run by listed global miners.

Though the most recent bout of unrest in Congo threatens the eastern minerals-rich Kivus region near the Rwandan border, any impact will likely be limited as M23 rebels, reportedly backed by Rwanda, may have achieved their “primary strategic and commercial aims” by capturing Goma, the capital of North Kivu province, said Philippe de Pontet, Africa Director at political risk advisor Eurasia Group, in a report on Nov. 22.

(May 14, 2013 at 12:53 pm)festive1 Wrote: How about Ghana or Kenya or even South Africa?-none of which are perfect, but they're overall pretty stable.

Ghana is in the midst of a civil war, kenya's leader is on trial for war crimes, and south africa is seeing the largest labor protest since the 1960's full of wildcat strikes and assisinations of labour unions leaders

Quote: One needs to remember most of the continent did not operate independently of their colonial powers until the 1950's-1960's.

so why should they cooperate with even the notion that they are in fact a "country"

Quote:These are still fledgling governments, especially those like Liberia and Sierra Leone which recently had civil wars. It's unfair to expect them to be fully developed at this point in time.

which is why they fight against the current governments.... why is west africa divided?... other than too serve the needs of europe

Quote:Think of how the US was in 1830. Not to mention that most of these countries didn't choose their own borders and have to attempt to form a cohesive citizenship from very diverse groups of people, which is difficult to do.

so why should they cohere to the nationalistic colonial government which you love so much?

Quote: Look at Rwanda... The Hutus and Tutsies should never have been lumped together, they've never gotten along, but in pre-colonial times they avoided each other for the most part, but some guy in Europe decided that was the perfect boundary for the country.

you are insane the hutu an tutsi are made up races created by the germans in order to foment racial hatred they were divided by those who looked the most white...like you

Quote:Also, China is now one of the biggest investors in Africa, they're edging out the West.

atleast they only focus on monetary gain and not on creating long lasting racial hatred amongst the people like the west does

Quote:This varies from country to country, but generally speaking... I think we're going to see a huge shattering of Africa, the formation of Southern Sudan being the beginning of this. It's going to get worse before it gets better.

I like the south sudan being free from the racist middle eastern governmennt in the north maybe you and your husband like racist nationalist governments we all know for a fact you hate the left wing controlling african govenrments

(May 25, 2013 at 7:50 am)cratehorus Wrote:

(May 14, 2013 at 12:53 pm)festive1 Wrote: How about Ghana or Kenya or even South Africa?-none of which are perfect, but they're overall pretty stable.

Ghana is in the midst of a civil war, kenya's leader is on trial for war crimes, and south africa is seeing the largest labor protest since the 1960's full of wildcat strikes and assisinations of labour unions leaders

Quote: One needs to remember most of the continent did not operate independently of their colonial powers until the 1950's-1960's.

so why should they cooperate with even the notion that they are in fact a "country"

Quote:These are still fledgling governments, especially those like Liberia and Sierra Leone which recently had civil wars. It's unfair to expect them to be fully developed at this point in time.

which is why they fight against the current governments.... why is west africa divided?... other than too serve the needs of europe

Quote:Think of how the US was in 1830. Not to mention that most of these countries didn't choose their own borders and have to attempt to form a cohesive citizenship from very diverse groups of people, which is difficult to do.

so why should they cohere to the nationalistic colonial government which you love so much?

Quote: Look at Rwanda... The Hutus and Tutsies should never have been lumped together, they've never gotten along, but in pre-colonial times they avoided each other for the most part, but some guy in Europe decided that was the perfect boundary for the country.

you are insane the hutu an tutsi are made up races created by the germans in order to foment racial hatred they were divided by those who looked the most white...like you

Quote:Also, China is now one of the biggest investors in Africa, they're edging out the West.

atleast they only focus on monetary gain and not on creating long lasting racial hatred amongst the people like the west does

Quote:This varies from country to country, but generally speaking... I think we're going to see a huge shattering of Africa, the formation of Southern Sudan being the beginning of this. It's going to get worse before it gets better.

I like the south sudan being free from the racist middle eastern governmennt in the north maybe you and your husband like racist nationalist governments we all know for a fact you hate the left wing controlling african govenrments

Ghana is not at war o.O
http://www.africanews.com/site/page/ghana
Their president died on Tuesday, but that's not going to destabilize the country...
When you lead with such a bold-faced lie, I'm not even going to read the rest of what you say.

(May 25, 2013 at 8:13 am)festive1 Wrote: Ghana is not at war o.O
http://www.africanews.com/site/page/ghana
Their president died on Tuesday, but that's not going to destabilize the country...
When you lead with such a bold-faced lie, I'm not even going to read the rest of what you say.

Ghana: Kantamanto Now War Zone

Quote:The burnt Kantamanto market in Accra was turned into a near war zone, when the traders engaged police personnel detailed to secure the property and lives at the scene in a tussle.

The area has since been declared a crime scene.

Fire razed through the market on Sunday morning, reducing the place to 'Ground Zero' status, but the traders are adamant to relocate to a new market proposed by the Accra Metropolitan Assembly (AMA).

The traders, who besieged the place on suspicion and rumours making the rounds that the city authorities had teamed up with the police to forcefully evict them from the market and sell off the place to a Chinese investor, were repelled with rubber bullets and tears gas.

The aggrieved traders and hawkers besieged the market premises shouting and wailing, and vehemently protesting bent on preventing the AMA from allegedly taking the land that gives them their daily bread.

The crowd was so charged that even journalists were not spared of assaults.

http://allafrica.com/stories/201305090720.html

just know......... that even though i disagree with you on practically everything.......... i do respect your position as an educated right winger

now address what i said....

(May 25, 2013 at 8:22 am)cratehorus Wrote:

(May 25, 2013 at 8:13 am)festive1 Wrote: Ghana is not at war o.O
http://www.africanews.com/site/page/ghana
Their president died on Tuesday, but that's not going to destabilize the country...
When you lead with such a bold-faced lie, I'm not even going to read the rest of what you say.

Ghana: Kantamanto Now War Zone

Quote:The burnt Kantamanto market in Accra was turned into a near war zone, when the traders engaged police personnel detailed to secure the property and lives at the scene in a tussle.

The area has since been declared a crime scene.

Fire razed through the market on Sunday morning, reducing the place to 'Ground Zero' status, but the traders are adamant to relocate to a new market proposed by the Accra Metropolitan Assembly (AMA).

The traders, who besieged the place on suspicion and rumours making the rounds that the city authorities had teamed up with the police to forcefully evict them from the market and sell off the place to a Chinese investor, were repelled with rubber bullets and tears gas.

The aggrieved traders and hawkers besieged the market premises shouting and wailing, and vehemently protesting bent on preventing the AMA from allegedly taking the land that gives them their daily bread.

The crowd was so charged that even journalists were not spared of assaults.

http://allafrica.com/stories/201305090720.html

just know......... that even though i disagree with you on practically everything.......... i do respect your position as an educated right winger

now address what i said....

Just read what you're siting! A marketplace turned into a NEAR war zone... it's been declared a crime scene...
Fuck me... the same thing could be said about South Central LA from time to time... it doesn't equate to the country being at civil war! This is a dispute about moving a MARKET, not a civil war... WOW! I'm not going to engage with such dishonesty.

(May 25, 2013 at 8:37 am)festive1 Wrote: Just read what you're siting! A marketplace turned into a NEAR war zone... it's been declared a crime scene...
Fuck me... the same thing could be said about South Central LA from time to time... it doesn't equate to the country being at civil war! This is a dispute about moving a MARKET, not a civil war... WOW! I'm not going to engage with such dishonesty.

okay so their not in civil war yet but they have massive protests going on concerning labour and oil subsidies, and the recent election which many say was a fraud but you can hardly use a country in such turmoil which is an hours drive from a real warzone in mali which is plauged with alqueda....a country which is the size of rhode island as an example of a perfect african country

Ghana doesn't even border Mali. It's bordered by the Ivory Coast, Togo, and Burkina Faso. Burkina Faso, to the north of Ghana, does border Mali. However, proximity to a country at war, means nothing, except perhaps increased border security.
The elections are being contested by the opposition party in Ghanaian courts. However, international observers consider the elections to be free and fair.
Protests do not necessarily mean a country is going to spiral into all out civil war. I'm in DC, and there are protests quite frequently, none of which have led to the downfall of our democracy. In fact, protests often don't occur in tightly controlled regimes because the government brutally puts them down. Protesting is an exercise in civil liberty. People in Ghana don't fear their government killing them for speaking out against certain policies... That's a GOOD thing for democracy, not a first step to civil war or general unrest.
Ghana's size has nothing to do with it. However, Ghana is about the size of the United Kingdom, a bit smaller than the state of Oregon, quite larger than the state of Rhode Island. It also has a population of about 26 million.
Freedom House, an independent democracy monitoring think-tank, does rankings every year of all the world's countries. They measure democracy in terms of political rights and civil liberties. They also report on how free the press is within each of these countries. Ghana's 2013 ranking: a 1 for political rights and a 2 for civil liberties. This is on a scale of 1-7, where 1 is the most free and 7 the least. Here's a link to their report, it's arranged alphabetically, and you can clearly see that Ghana fared better than Greece who got a 2,2 scoring. http://www.freedomhouse.org/sites/defaul...0Web_1.pdf
Ghana's press was also declared free by Freedom House, thus making Ghana a very good example of freedom and democracy on the continent.

P.S. It is clear to me that you either A: don't know anything about what you are attempting to discuss or B: are trolling. It is not possible to engage in a rational discussion where one party wildly misconstrues basic facts (ie: Ghana being at civil war because there was a riot or protests, Ghana being the size of Rhode Island, Ghana bordering Mali, etc.). Either make assertions, with viable evidence to back them up, or I'm not going to engage with this anymore.