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RE: How will the holocaust be remembered after the last survivor dies?
June 19, 2013 at 12:07 pm
(June 19, 2013 at 12:03 pm)CleanShavenJesus Wrote: Yeah, it's just a case against the Jews. I hate them Jews!
Do you not see the irony of the Israeli aggression against Palestine? And their persecution of said people?
This isn't rhetorical. I'm not a journalist. I'm just making a point.
There is no persecution, they are having a conflict over a piece of sandy land.
Do I really need to explain what persecution for unwanted people was like in the third reich???????
Did you sleep during the history lessons?
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RE: How will the holocaust be remembered after the last survivor dies?
June 19, 2013 at 12:29 pm
(June 19, 2013 at 12:07 pm)The Germans are coming Wrote: (June 19, 2013 at 12:03 pm)CleanShavenJesus Wrote: Yeah, it's just a case against the Jews. I hate them Jews!
Do you not see the irony of the Israeli aggression against Palestine? And their persecution of said people?
This isn't rhetorical. I'm not a journalist. I'm just making a point.
There is no persecution, they are having a conflict over a piece of sandy land.
Do I really need to explain what persecution for unwanted people was like in the third reich???????
Did you sleep during the history lessons?
There's no persecution?
http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/count...erritories
http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/israel-...eport-2011
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian..._detention
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8qvIlfvmts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krlnS6hcxTI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E23jXF_Naf4
These are lighter examples, but I feel you're going to reply with, "That's propoganda!". You'll probably respond with, "HOW IS THIS LIKE THE HOLOCAUST?" I'm simply pointing out the irony in the Jewish people treating another set of people in such a fashion. Do they forget so easily the amount of pain and torture their people went through? Why translate that on another set of people?
I'm not saying it's as close to as bad as the treatment of Jews in the Holocaust. I'm not an idiot. I'm saying the treatment of the Palestinian people by the Jews is bad, and the situation, in itself, is ironic.
ronedee Wrote:Science doesn't have a good explaination for water
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RE: How will the holocaust be remembered after the last survivor dies?
June 19, 2013 at 4:29 pm
An old friend told me that when America was colonised a lot more native Americans we're slaughtered than Jews during the second world war.
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RE: How will the holocaust be remembered after the last survivor dies?
June 19, 2013 at 5:49 pm
(This post was last modified: June 19, 2013 at 6:14 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(June 19, 2013 at 4:01 am)The Germans are coming Wrote: link to article:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22892783
This is a culture that remembered the destruction of the second temple 2000 years ago vividly enough to let it color their entire outlook for the next two thousand year. I have no doubt it will remember holocaust well enough 2000 years hence to still be reminding everyone else about it every other day.
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(June 19, 2013 at 4:29 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: An old friend told me that when America was colonised a lot more native Americans we're slaughtered than Jews during the second world war.
The spanish caused more indian deaths than the total casaulty suffered for all reasona by all ethnicities between 1939-1945, of which the holocaust is but a tenth part? Probably.
Estimate puts the total number of native north, central and south Americans exterminated by disease, violence, and forced deprivation of sustenence from 1492 to the middle of the 17th century at between 50-100 million, equal to or greater than the high end estimate of total military and civilian casualty of WWII.
Relative to total global population, the 50 years after columbus saw, percentage wise, the greatest decline in global human population in recorded history, with fully 1 in 6 people on earth dying of disease introduced by the Spanish. This far surpasses the WWII, the black death, or any other recorded event in world history.
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RE: How will the holocaust be remembered after the last survivor dies?
June 19, 2013 at 6:23 pm
(This post was last modified: June 19, 2013 at 6:25 pm by Something completely different.)
(June 19, 2013 at 12:29 pm)CleanShavenJesus Wrote:
Where are the goverment sponsored stormtroopers humiliating palestinians?
Where are the goverment sponsored stortroopers murdering palestinians?
Where are the goverment sponsort stormtroopers purposly destroying palestinian property?
Where is there legal discrimination of Palestinians?
Where are Palestinians by law excluded from the public life?
Where are Palestinians being marked out in public as such to be recognised for other members of the public?
Where is the fascist regime which runs Israel?
Where is the war of extermination against Palestinians?
Where is is the industrial machine which makes profit out of working Palestinians to death?
Where is the secret Israeli Police holding Palestinians illagly?
Where are the Palestinians inocent?
Where is it official goverment policy that the jews are a supirior race?
Where is it illigal in Israel to interact on a privat and buisness level with Palestinians?
In almoust all cases, the Palestinians behaved badly and therefor deserve what they got.
If the Arabs would lie down their weapons, there would be peace, if the jews did there would be a second holocaust. As the Arabs are always proud to boast about when not interviewed by western media.
Either you dont really know the extent of the crimes commited in nazi Germany or you are relatevising them. Because the only current regimes which can be compared in any way with nazi Germany are Saudi Arabia, Iran, North Korea and Turkmenistan.
(June 19, 2013 at 4:29 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: An old friend told me that when America was colonised a lot more native Americans we're slaughtered than Jews during the second world war.
Are you trying to make a judgement on how bad a system is b counting the number of deaths?
An estemated 50-70 million people died in India during colonial British rule.
Dschinges Kahn killed between 40 to 100 million.
It often does not only depend on the numbers but on the circumstances under which the killings came to be.
The imperial British caused a famine in India with their rought economic policies. Kahn was simply child of his era (medieval warfare saw massacring as a simple form of policy). The holocaust was an industrial scale murder mashine with the goal of exterminating certain groups of people.
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RE: How will the holocaust be remembered after the last survivor dies?
June 19, 2013 at 6:39 pm
(This post was last modified: June 19, 2013 at 6:40 pm by fr0d0.)
Yes apples and oranges Germans. I don't disagree. Reasons and methods varied greatly. None leave a nice taste in the mouth. I simply thought the fact interesting. Scale is often touted in relation to the holocaust, but on that front we have far worse examples.
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RE: How will the holocaust be remembered after the last survivor dies?
June 19, 2013 at 9:19 pm
(June 19, 2013 at 6:23 pm)The Germans are coming Wrote: (June 19, 2013 at 12:29 pm)CleanShavenJesus Wrote:
Where are the goverment sponsored stormtroopers humiliating palestinians?
Where are the goverment sponsored stortroopers murdering palestinians?
Where are the goverment sponsort stormtroopers purposly destroying palestinian property?
Where is there legal discrimination of Palestinians?
Where are Palestinians by law excluded from the public life?
Where are Palestinians being marked out in public as such to be recognised for other members of the public?
Where is the fascist regime which runs Israel?
Where is the war of extermination against Palestinians?
Where is is the industrial machine which makes profit out of working Palestinians to death?
Where is the secret Israeli Police holding Palestinians illagly?
Where are the Palestinians inocent?
Where is it official goverment policy that the jews are a supirior race?
Where is it illigal in Israel to interact on a privat and buisness level with Palestinians?
First off, the questions that I bolded were answered for you in the links that I provided, which shows you did not bother viewing them. Of course, you say "government-sponsored stormtroopers". In this case, they're simply known as "soldiers".
You cannot deny the Israeli mistreatment of the Palestanians. Go ahead, try to convince yourself that the mistreatment of Palestanians is justified. Say they deserved it. You'd be a moron, but go ahead, say it. The mistreatment and occupation of a certain race or area of peoples is never justified, by any means. Targeting a broad group of people (in the case of the Israeli, the Arabs) is never justified. There's no reason to punish an entire race. For anything that could have been done.
You're dodging my question. I want a straight answer and a refutation, because I've provided my evidence: are the Israeli people mistreating the Arabs or not? Are the samples of blatant discrimination, murder, and unlawful detention good enough for you?
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RE: How will the holocaust be remembered after the last survivor dies?
June 19, 2013 at 9:23 pm
I visited the museum in D.C. when I lived there, and it was a very humbling experience. The Holocaust was one of the most tragic events in human history.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
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RE: How will the holocaust be remembered after the last survivor dies?
June 20, 2013 at 2:55 am
(This post was last modified: June 20, 2013 at 3:17 am by littleendian.)
I don't agree that the Palestinians are victims of brutal suppression by Israel, but there certainly are cases where both sides have overstepped the line, in the case of Israel potentially with the more severe consequences because of their stronger firepower. Certainly today it is Israel who are in a much stronger position and therefore I would see it in their responsibility to make the greater effort to see peace in the region.
Unfortunately peace is not always of political use: I am sure Israels politicians are well aware that their young patchwork country might see incredible internal quarrels once the pressures of external threats fall off. The civil unrest there recently might've been a foretaste.
(June 19, 2013 at 10:21 am)Stue Denim Wrote: Quote: If you can't see frightening parallels between the concentration camps of Nazi Germany and todays CAFOs and slaughter houses, then I say again: Open your eyes.
Germans didn't say that you said they were 'equal'. But you did compare them, and germans dismissed (rightfully so imo) your comparison as hogwash. The often not so fundamental biological differences between human and non-human animals do not justify the complete moral distinction we draw between the two groups. The only objective basis of morality is ability to suffer and the will to live, and science tells us that we need to attribute these to animals to all but the same extent as we do to humans. Yet any marginal differences there may be between humans and animals get blown out of proportion to allow us to justify our continued exploitation of these creatures, just like the marginal differences between Germans and Jews were blown out of proportion to justify any mistreatment of the latter.
So animals are used for often unnecessary and cruel medical and cosmetics tests, they are locked away, denied their natural way of life, tortured and maimed in circusses to make them conform to how we think they should behave, are tortured in utilitarian facilities of meat production and eventually they are killed. We're not talking about dozens of millions who suffer this way, these fates are measured in the hundrets of billions.
"Men see clearly enough the barbarity of all ages — except their own!" — Ernest Crosby.
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RE: How will the holocaust be remembered after the last survivor dies?
June 20, 2013 at 12:13 pm
(June 20, 2013 at 2:55 am)littleendian Wrote: The often not so fundamental biological differences between human and non-human animals do not justify the complete moral distinction we draw between the two groups. The only objective basis of morality is ability to suffer and the will to live, and science tells us that we need to attribute these to animals to all but the same extent as we do to humans. Yet any marginal differences there may be between humans and animals get blown out of proportion to allow us to justify our continued exploitation of these creatures, just like the marginal differences between Germans and Jews were blown out of proportion to justify any mistreatment of the latter.
Preachiness in reality does not actually make bare assertions even the slightest amount less bare.
But I can understand how, to the self-righteous caught up in the intoxication of their self-righteousness, didactic tone would seem to go a long way towards mitigating the flaws and improving the pursuasiveness of their arguments.
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