(June 26, 2013 at 10:51 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: The body county that Atheistic governments has accrued makes all religious body counts look like a mole hill. "Conform or die" is wrong whether it is a so called Christian or an Atheist holding the gun.

Communism, not "atheism", is responsible for these atrocities.

As far as I'm concerned, Communism is a rival religion, complete with its scripture (Marx's Communist Manifesto), its so-called good-vs-evil ideology (capitalists are depicted as evil) and its prophecy (the unlikely worker's paradise). They were, like most religions, trying to kill off the competition.

I'll go out on a limb here. No country ever committed genocide for being too skeptical or thinking too critically. Anyone got any contrary examples?

(June 26, 2013 at 10:51 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote:

(June 26, 2013 at 10:46 am)pocaracas Wrote: There's an end goal?!
Dammit, why don't I ever get these memos?!?

Ever heard the expression herding cats?
That's what it's like getting atheists to agree on something.... except on the non-belief in deities.

Evolution by natural selection is simply a mechanism which enables organisms to produce offspring which are viable in the environment where they live.
The ones that are not viable, don't reproduce and end the lineage.

We tend to see it as the bliss of brainwashing... does that make sense?
Does it make sense to want the future of mankind to be as indoctrinated and brainwashed as it is nowadays? I mean, look at all the multiple religious sects, each indoctrinating their children and perpetuating this division... and resulting strife, war, waste... Does that make sense?

You are assuming that all religious people are brainwashed, or that religion itself is a brainwashing process.

Not all, but at least most are.
Present me with a person who is born and raised with no concept of god whatsoever and, when presented with that concept proceeds to accept it as trustworthy, thus following the religion of the god that was presented to him/her.

(June 26, 2013 at 10:51 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: However, what are you teaching your children about religion, God, how the universe came to be? I would suspect you are "brainwashing" them with Atheism, evolution, and the Big Bang theory.

Are you truly comparing teaching scientific discoveries about reality with teaching folklore?

(June 26, 2013 at 10:51 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: The body county that Atheistic governments has accrued makes all religious body counts look like a mole hill. "Conform or die" is wrong whether it is a so called Christian or an Atheist holding the gun.

Conform or die?
Now now, boy... you're threading on thin ice... go ahead and say the name that TGAC is expecting...

(June 26, 2013 at 10:28 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: Evolution has an end goal, which I understand to be that humans, or whatever orgasm beats us there, become transcended "godlike" beings that shed these mortal bodies and live as immortals.

You're thinking of this guy:

He doesn't really exist.

(June 26, 2013 at 11:01 am)The Germans are coming Wrote:

(June 26, 2013 at 10:51 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: You must have missed my original post. I was asking what is the end goal of Atheism. I was only making a suggestion to get the ball rolling. You objected, and now I am suppose to answer my own question?

You were making a suggestion so you could mentaly masturbate over the nonsence you posted. Now that is me making a suggestion.

I am not asking you to answere your own question, I clearly and understandably asked: What makes you think that there should be a goal?
And I might aswell add the question: What made you make up you absolutly brainless "suggestions"

Quote:Please go find another thread you can follow.

As expected you patheticaly attempt to escape the situation you brought on yourself by pretending to be a figure of authority.

You forgot your medication today. I knew my suggestions were mostly hogwash from the get go. I was trying to draw the long-term view held by most Atheist by stating them.

Why would I want to escape the answers to my questions? You seem to think I came here to lord over you with my superior wisdom and intellect. Have I demonstrated such wisdom and intellect, whether I have it or not? I think not. The question is about the end goal of Atheism, not my intellectual prowess.

(June 26, 2013 at 10:31 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote:

(June 26, 2013 at 10:31 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: The goal of secularism is no unnecessary entanglement of government and religion, and since people are always going to disagree on when it's uneccessary and when it's entanglement, it will always be an issue. I guess you could say the end goal is that it be less of an issue than today.

The end goal of humanism is world peace and prosperity with minimal suffering, maximum kindness, and a healthy ecology.

What you're probably really wondering about is the end goal of antitheism, which I presume would be no one believing in any God or gods. Of those of us who are antitheists, few of us would advocate using anything but sweet reason in that effort, so like the others, it's more of a committment to an ongoing journey than something we expect to actually happen due to our efforts.

The end game of Christianity would be everyone being a Christian, so speaking of end games at this point is pretty much equally constructive for either side.

How are Atheists, antitheists, secularists trying to achieve their goals?

Atheists, as atheists, don't have a goal. It's just the word for someone who doesn't believe any God (or gods) is real. Theists don't have a goal as mere theists, either. Your goals depend on what else you are besides an atheist or a theist. Hindus and Christians are both theists, but their goals are very different.

As I said (to paraphrase), all most antitheists do to achieve their goal is try to make the case that theism is not reasonably justified. In this effort they may do some writing or speaking or put up videos; and so forth. Sometimes you run across someone who spouts off about banning it or somesuch, but that puts them at odds with atheists who are secularists (oppressing religion is not being neutral towards it or unentangled with it), bare-bones Buddhists, Unitarian Universalists, etc.

In America, secularists tend to try to achieve their goals by holding government accountable to established law.

(June 26, 2013 at 11:04 am)DeistPaladin Wrote:

(June 26, 2013 at 10:51 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: The body county that Atheistic governments has accrued makes all religious body counts look like a mole hill. "Conform or die" is wrong whether it is a so called Christian or an Atheist holding the gun.

Communism, not "atheism", is responsible for these atrocities.

As far as I'm concerned, Communism is a rival religion, complete with its scripture (Marx's Communist Manifesto), its so-called good-vs-evil ideology (capitalists are depicted as evil) and its prophecy (the unlikely worker's paradise). They were, like most religions, trying to kill off the competition.

I'll go out on a limb here. No country ever committed genocide for being too skeptical or thinking too critically. Anyone got any contrary examples?

The Communist government of China was/is Atheistic, and they killed millions upon millions in the great purges that performed to realize their goals.

(June 26, 2013 at 11:09 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote:

(June 26, 2013 at 11:04 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: Communism, not "atheism", is responsible for these atrocities.

As far as I'm concerned, Communism is a rival religion, complete with its scripture (Marx's Communist Manifesto), its so-called good-vs-evil ideology (capitalists are depicted as evil) and its prophecy (the unlikely worker's paradise). They were, like most religions, trying to kill off the competition.

I'll go out on a limb here. No country ever committed genocide for being too skeptical or thinking too critically. Anyone got any contrary examples?

The Communist government of China was/is Atheistic, and they killed millions upon millions in the great purges that performed to realize their goals.

Hardly - Mao was a virtual Godhead of the state with every citizen expected to have his little red book with them at all times.

There is no 'end goal' to atheism. It's simply a lack of belief in a god or gods.

Can you define what an end goal would be to a lack of belief?

(June 26, 2013 at 10:28 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote:

(June 26, 2013 at 10:20 am)Doubting Thomas Wrote: There's a goal?

Evolution has an end goal, which I understand to be that humans, or whatever orgasm beats us there, become transcended "godlike" beings that shed these mortal bodies and live as immortals.

Perhaps that is the end goal of Atheism? If you stray onto the religious path your evolutionary journey will be abruptly halted by the taint of religion, and your great, great, great, great, etc, grandchildren will never know the eternal bliss of godhood.

Does that make sense?

No, it doesn't make sense.

The end goal of evolution is not for beings to become 'godlike'. that's nonsensical. Evolution is simply the adaption of the organism(s) to the environment. It's not a linear process of 'we started out like simple creatures' to 'now we exist as gods'.

There is no being that is more 'evolved' than others. Consider a clownfish. Are you more evolved than a clownfish? Could you live underwater as much as a clownfish could live above it?

Evolution and atheism are mutually exclusive. I'm not sure where you've got the idea that they're somehow linked? Same with secularism. Secularism has nothing to do with atheism either, so again, I'm more confused than anything at the points you're trying to make?

ShadowWolf1986 Wrote:Evolution has an end goal,

Evolution isn't a thinking being. It doesn't have goals or even an ability to act.

Quote: which I understand to be that humans, or whatever orgasm beats us there, become transcended "godlike" beings that shed these mortal bodies and live as immortals.

Maybe in a sci-fi movie, but otherwise I've never heard of this interpretation before.

(June 26, 2013 at 10:41 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote:

(June 26, 2013 at 10:39 am)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: You asked for a goal and he gave you one and it's outside the scope of this thread?

I see, he was saying that the end goal of Atheism is for the word "atheism" to disappear. An odd goal.

If everyone is an atheist, there won't be a need for the words 'atheist' or 'theist', it will just be the default for humans.