(June 29, 2013 at 1:25 am)pocaracas Wrote:

(June 28, 2013 at 7:33 pm)Drich Wrote: how do you know that the 'brain' is not just the physical link between our souls and our bodies?

What sort of evidence is there that hints that it is?
Why would anyone think that it is?

There is the conceivability argument, the divisibility argument, and introspection argument, among others. The divisibility argument in a nutshell:

Quote:Descartes position on this argument is recalled by Lowe as follows: ‘This is that he, as a subject of experience, is a simple and indivisible substance, whereas his body, being spatially extended, is divisible and composed of different parts.’[5] This suggests that if we were to lose a part of our body that would not necessarily affect our mental states, purely our physical states. It seems to follow from this that if you were to say lose an arm in battle, you would like to believe that you were the same person before and after the amputation, regardless of whether your body was slightly different, suggesting that physical states must be different from mental states. If this holds true, then it would appear that a change in your physical state doesn’t mean a change in your mental state, which means they are two different substances and should not be identified together.

http://vincentwooding.wordpress.com/tag/...-argument/

Here's another thought experiment along the same lines. Suppose you get a heart transplant, lung transplant, frontal lobe transplant and so on until you have replaced every cell in your body. Are you still you? In the process of all the transplants, have you died at some point or continued to exist?

Quote:God wants to know you personally.

I thought your fucking god knew everything already?

(June 29, 2013 at 1:43 am)Undeceived Wrote:

(June 29, 2013 at 1:25 am)pocaracas Wrote: What sort of evidence is there that hints that it is?
Why would anyone think that it is?

There is the conceivability argument, the divisibility argument, and introspection argument, among others. The divisibility argument in a nutshell:

Quote:Descartes position on this argument is recalled by Lowe as follows: ‘This is that he, as a subject of experience, is a simple and indivisible substance, whereas his body, being spatially extended, is divisible and composed of different parts.’[5] This suggests that if we were to lose a part of our body that would not necessarily affect our mental states, purely our physical states. It seems to follow from this that if you were to say lose an arm in battle, you would like to believe that you were the same person before and after the amputation, regardless of whether your body was slightly different, suggesting that physical states must be different from mental states. If this holds true, then it would appear that a change in your physical state doesn’t mean a change in your mental state, which means they are two different substances and should not be identified together.

http://vincentwooding.wordpress.com/tag/...-argument/

Here's another thought experiment along the same lines. Suppose you get a heart transplant, lung transplant, frontal lobe transplant and so on until you have replaced every cell in your body. Are you still you? In the process of all the transplants, have you died at some point or continued to exist?

Laughable examples of the mind-brain duality.... -.-'
You should know better!

Here's an update on those: Brain damage leads to personality change!

The one most famous example happened in the 1800's, but it's been observed on other people:

Quote:Phineas Gage was a 25 years old construction foreman who lived in Vermont in the 1860s. While working on a railroad bed, he packed powdered explosives into a hole in the ground, using tamping iron. The powder heated and blew in his face. The tamping iron rebounded and pierced the top of his skull, ravaging the frontal lobes.

In 1868, Harlow, his doctor, reported the changes to his personality following the accident:

He became "fitful, irreverent, indulging at times in the grossest profanity (which was not previously his customs), manifesting but little deference to his fellows, impatient of restraint or advice when it conflicts with his desires, at times pertinaciously obstinate yet capricious and vacillating, devising many plans for future operation which are no sooner arranged than they are abandoned in turn for others appearing more feasible ... His mind was radically changed, so that his friends and acquaintances said he was no longer Gage."

In other words, his brain injury turned him into a psychopathic narcissist.

in
http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art20845.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage
Read about others:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/prof...nge-part-i

http://www.nasponline.org/publications/c...njury.aspx

(June 29, 2013 at 2:14 am)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:God wants to know you personally.

I thought your fucking god knew everything already?

I thought that was the excuse the priests gave to the alter boys.

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(June 27, 2013 at 11:47 am)Godschild Wrote:

(June 27, 2013 at 5:50 am)Zen Badger Wrote: So i get to believe in Thor?

Awesome

Sorry Zen, Thor is not spirit.

Oh dear, more bare assertions.

Prove it GC or STFU

(June 29, 2013 at 1:43 am)Undeceived Wrote: There is the conceivability argument, the divisibility argument, and introspection argument, among others. The divisibility argument in a nutshell:

Quote:Descartes position on this argument is recalled by Lowe as follows: ‘This is that he, as a subject of experience, is a simple and indivisible substance, whereas his body, being spatially extended, is divisible and composed of different parts.’[5] This suggests that if we were to lose a part of our body that would not necessarily affect our mental states, purely our physical states. It seems to follow from this that if you were to say lose an arm in battle, you would like to believe that you were the same person before and after the amputation, regardless of whether your body was slightly different, suggesting that physical states must be different from mental states. If this holds true, then it would appear that a change in your physical state doesn’t mean a change in your mental state, which means they are two different substances and should not be identified together.

http://vincentwooding.wordpress.com/tag/...-argument/

Here's another thought experiment along the same lines. Suppose you get a heart transplant, lung transplant, frontal lobe transplant and so on until you have replaced every cell in your body. Are you still you? In the process of all the transplants, have you died at some point or continued to exist?

Of course, this doesn't take into account split brain patients:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFJPtVRlI64

Here's a neuroscientist talking about a patient of his who has a theistic brain hemisphere, and an atheist brain hemisphere. So... you know, aside from being pretty conclusive proof that the mind is attached to the brain in some pretty fundamental ways (it's a physical injury to the brain that causes the hemispheres to be unable to communicate that does this) there's some interesting philosophical questions this raises.

Not that Descartes argument makes much sense as an answer to the question of mind/brain duality anyway; the entire debate is around whether the mind is dependent on the brain or not, so talking about losing other body parts is just a red herring. You might as well say that the foot is not dependent on the body because if you cut off a hand, you still have two feet!

(June 28, 2013 at 8:21 pm)CleanShavenJesus Wrote:

(June 27, 2013 at 11:47 am)Godschild Wrote: Sorry Zen, Thor is not spirit.

You can't disprove Thor's existence.

My science teachers said he was not real.

(June 29, 2013 at 2:17 pm)Godschild Wrote: My science teachers said he was not real.

The same science teachers that know the Judeo-Christian god is a myth.

(June 29, 2013 at 2:17 pm)Godschild Wrote: My science teachers said he was not real.

Those same science teachers probably didn't say your God wasn't real because it is "politically incorrect" to do so. This is a problem. There is a possibility Thor is real. It's just highly improbable, so why believe it. Same with your god. It would be pretty interesting though if Thor were real. Not so much with your god.

(June 29, 2013 at 2:23 pm)Maelstrom Wrote:

(June 29, 2013 at 2:17 pm)Godschild Wrote: My science teachers said he was not real.

The same science teachers that know the Judeo-Christian god is a myth.

The same science teachers who probably taught him that evolution was real, but perhaps he just plugged his ears and prayed loudly the whole time that was going on.

(June 29, 2013 at 2:17 pm)Godschild Wrote: My science teachers said he was not real.

Why do you keep saying things like that? That baffles the crap out of me.

You keep saying that you were taught by people that certain gods weren't real, so you don't believe in those gods. But apparently you didn't happen to have someone teach you that the god of the Bible wasn't real either. So you believe in that one god.

This is seriously starting to weird me out.