(July 17, 2013 at 1:32 am)Consilius Wrote: If sodium is still sodium outside of and within the salt, then we have a whole made of parts. A chemical compound is the creation of an entirely different thing, not a body with parts.

As it happens, sodium is still sodium outside of and within salt. It doesn't magically change into unsodium.

(July 17, 2013 at 1:32 am)Consilius Wrote: As for water, it needs light to change color, and so you cannot say that water changes color on its own.

If the water is colorless and has color under the same light, then it doesn't need light to change color. Wrong again.

(July 17, 2013 at 1:38 am)genkaus Wrote:

(July 17, 2013 at 1:32 am)Consilius Wrote: If sodium is still sodium outside of and within the salt, then we have a whole made of parts. A chemical compound is the creation of an entirely different thing, not a body with parts.

As it happens, sodium is still sodium outside of and within salt. It doesn't magically change into unsodium.

No, but the salt changes.

(July 17, 2013 at 3:12 am)Godschild Wrote:

(July 17, 2013 at 1:38 am)genkaus Wrote: As it happens, sodium is still sodium outside of and within salt. It doesn't magically change into unsodium.

No, but the salt changes.

Exactly.

Quote:As for water, it needs light to change color, and so you cannot say that water changes color on its own.

Colour belongs to the wave of light. Without light there is no colour. Water has no property of colour, in fact nothing has a property of colour. Every material only looks differently colour-wise because of how they interact with light waves. As such, water like air will scatter blue light, fortifying our eye sensory to read mainly blue visuals.

Thank you, Walking Void. In that case, the color of anything makes a bad attribute to use in any analogy.

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(July 17, 2013 at 1:38 am)genkaus Wrote:

(July 17, 2013 at 1:32 am)Consilius Wrote: If sodium is still sodium outside of and within the salt, then we have a whole made of parts. A chemical compound is the creation of an entirely different thing, not a body with parts.

As it happens, sodium is still sodium outside of and within salt. It doesn't magically change into unsodium.

Sure, you could say that there is sodium within salt, but you could not normally extract it in its original form, because its bond to chlorine has made it into salt. Same with the chlorine. NaCl is neither sodium or chlorine, but salt, an entirely different thing.

Quote:If the water is colorless and has color under the same light, then it doesn't need light to change color. Wrong again.

Light, and not the grouping of water molecules, makes lakes appear blue. Note how the water doesn't actually retain any color, unlike an apple or a painted post, but the blueness of water is only an illusion.

Senses are such a strange beauty. WHAT is sensed is measurable but what We interpret from that sense is personal. Imagine explaining vision to an ant. Impossibru.

As such, a pit viper sees a thermal structuring of things using its tongue yet We cannot emulate that sense in our brains... nothing besides roughly simulating how that same sense functions for us in terms of a compatible sense that WE have.

(July 17, 2013 at 10:00 pm)Consilius Wrote: Sure, you could say that there is sodium within salt, but you could not normally extract it in its original form, because its bond to chlorine has made it into salt. Same with the chlorine. NaCl is neither sodium or chlorine, but salt, an entirely different thing.

Exactly. The whole is entirely different from its parts.

(July 17, 2013 at 10:00 pm)Consilius Wrote: Light, and not the grouping of water molecules, makes lakes appear blue.

If that was the case then drops of water would appear blue as well. They don't. Try again.

Can you get salt by pouring sodium and chlorine into a glass?

And no, I refuse your invitation to try anything again. I'm here explaining to you how water gets its coloration. Notice how glasses of water don't turn blue. Like I said, the whole retains the attributes of the parts if all parts share them. When the amount of water becomes large enough, the light acting upon it causes it to appear blue. The blueness is just an illusion produced by the effects of the light. You cannot say that the water is actually colored like an apple.

The meaning of faith has devolved to the chemical compounds of salt?

We have to start somewhere.