(August 26, 2013 at 3:04 pm)BadWriterSparty Wrote: I bet that's just coincidence.

Having checked the IP logs, I bet you're right.

Uncaused cause?
Energy pouring into nothingness from the creator itself?

How odd.... astrophysicists have been telling us, for years, that the overall net energy of the whole Universe is..... zero.
The energy of empty space is.... zero.

So.... where's the creator's energy gone to? Ah.... it got removed by the creator, once everything was in motion... "of course"!

And this creator... what is it?... hmmm... Flying Spaghetti Monster? Shiva? Zeus? Odin? Ra? Allah? Yahweh? Take your pick at a name... they could all do it... and there are many more that can.

And fine tuning? Here's a link to an awesome post by apo, please have the dignity to read it:
https://atheistforums.org/thread-17548-p...#pid427264

The Creator/God isn't made from physical energy/matter, he doesn't use energy/matter he creates energy/matter.

If the universe wasn't fined tuned then my car was made by a tornado running through a junkyard, it just happened to come together the way it did, created by the physical laws of nature it was. Before you bring up evolution that was entirely dependent on the laws of nature being what they were to begin with and that is what I'm referring to.

(August 26, 2013 at 4:07 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: The Creator/God isn't made from physical energy/matter, he doesn't use energy/matter he creates energy/matter.

If the universe wasn't fined tuned then my car was made by a tornado running through a junkyard, it just happened to come together the way it did, created by the physical laws of nature it was.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_assertion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_pleading

Creates it from what? That's why the "Goddidit" response always fails; you miss out all the vital details. Show your work!

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In other news: 6666 posts! Doesn't mean much, but it probably puts the shits up a few of us.

(August 26, 2013 at 4:12 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Creates it from what?

Creatio ex nihilo. Creation from nothing in other words. God is a creator not a craftsman.

Quote:That's why the "Goddidit" response always fails; you miss out all the vital details. Show your work!

Ok here's my work.

1) Everything that begins to exist has a cause

2) The universe began to exist

3) Therefore, the universe must have a cause

Any questions?


The tornado analogy is a perfect representation of what atheists believe the universe to be it's not spacial pleading just what you believe. You can a universe this complex, a universe that happens to be 100% precisely balanced/tuned for life by blind chance/luck. It's not an assertion this is what you have to believe if you don't think the universe was purposely and intentionally made this way.

Yes, what was the universe before it was the universe.

Since nothing that begins to exist actually comes into being from nothing. Everything that begins to exist is made of prior existing stuff. So, what was the universe made out of?

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Secondly,

Just because everything IN The Universe has a cause, what makes you fallaciously assume The Universe as a WHOLE was caused?

That's called the fallacy of composition...any questions?

(August 26, 2013 at 4:31 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: Ok here's my work.

1) Everything that begins to exist has a cause

2) The universe began to exist

3) Therefore, the universe must have a cause

Any questions?

Haven't read the last couple of pages, eh?

Quote:The tornado analogy is a perfect representation of what atheists believe the universe to be it's not spacial pleading just what you believe. You can a universe this complex, a universe that happens to be 100% precisely balanced/tuned for life by blind chance/luck. It's not an assertion this is what you have to believe if you don't think the universe was purposely and intentionally made this way.

More assertions.

@Faith No More - what I said earlier? I take it back.

(August 26, 2013 at 4:34 pm)Texas Sailor Wrote: Yes, what was the universe before it was the universe.

Since nothing that begins to exist actually comes into being from nothing. Everything that begins to exist is made of prior existing stuff. So, what was the universe made out of?

The universe was not made from prior existing stuff it was created from nothing by God. You're talking about "creatio ex materia" which creation from matter but then you're the one who has to explain where that previously existing matter came from to begin with. God not having being created from any kind of substance to begin with himself avoids this problem, and leaves him free to get on with the business of creation.

Quote:Just because everything IN The Universe has a cause, what makes you fallaciously assume The Universe as a WHOLE was caused?

From nothing comes nothing.

Quote:That's called the fallacy of composition...any questions?

1) Chicken
2) Egg
3) Omelette

Is that a fallacy of composition as well?

(August 26, 2013 at 4:31 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: 1) Everything that begins to exist has a cause

2) The universe began to exist

3) Therefore, the universe must have a cause

The craziest thing is...Esquilax even gave you a link so that you could educate yourself first. Instead, you just went with inserting your entire head up your ass! Seems to be consistent with the Christian stereotype. Proceed...

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(August 26, 2013 at 4:42 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: The universe was not made from prior existing stuff it was created from nothing by God.

I'll let you refute your own stupid argument...NOW!

(August 26, 2013 at 4:42 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: From nothing comes nothing.

That's right! Now, do you know why? Because Nothing lacks potentiality to BE Anything. If it had potentiality, it would be Something. So, I ask you again, on what did God exert his power to bring about His effect?

(August 26, 2013 at 4:42 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: 1) Chicken
2) Egg
3) Omelette

Is that a fallacy of composition as well?

No, that's called a demonstration of your stupidity. Where'd the chicken come from genius?

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He either acted upon 'x"

Or acted upon himself.

Pick one.