Quote:The universe was not made from prior existing stuff it was created from nothing

Quote:From nothing comes nothing.

Regardless, as stated earlier, you keep saying cause and effect, but that is a property of THIS universe and doesn't necessarily apply OUTSIDE this universe foregoing the need for something from nothing.

It's okay. That's only half of the problem this daft bible jockey has at the moment. This sword idiot has no idea how big the burden of proof is that he's just strapped to his back by asserting that only one time has anything popped into existence without a prior existing state, and it just so happens to be THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE!

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Assertions galore!

New world record in this thread?

This person must be convinced that they are the only one that has access to the internet, and that nobody has demolished these arguments A BILLION TIMES.

(August 26, 2013 at 4:50 pm)StuW Wrote: Regardless, as stated earlier, you keep saying cause and effect, but that is a property of THIS universe and doesn't necessarily apply OUTSIDE this universe foregoing the need for something from nothing.

I didn't say God was nothing I said God (who is something) created the universe from nothing. The universe began to exist all things that begin to exist have a cause, logic, reason, you're supposed to like this.

(August 26, 2013 at 4:53 pm)Texas Sailor Wrote: It's okay. That's only half of the problem this daft bible jockey has at the moment. This sword idiot has no idea how big the burden of proof is that he's just strapped to his back by asserting that only one time has anything popped into existence without a prior existing state, and it just so happens to be THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE!

This is official Christian doctrine and it is also the only way you can really logically do this. God created the universe from nothing, he is the first cause and the prime mover. God is the prior eternally existing state of everything that exists, the foundation of all of existence itself. God didn't use energy/matter nor is God made from energy/matter.

(August 26, 2013 at 5:02 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote:

(August 26, 2013 at 4:50 pm)StuW Wrote: Regardless, as stated earlier, you keep saying cause and effect, but that is a property of THIS universe and doesn't necessarily apply OUTSIDE this universe foregoing the need for something from nothing.

I didn't say God was nothing I said God (who is something) created the universe from nothing. The universe began to exist all things that begin to exist have a cause, logic, reason, you're supposed to like this.

Yup...here we go. I'm gonna break it down for you here. Let's start with your chicken example which you didn't understand at ALL when you used it.

Chicken
Egg
omelette


Baseball player
Ball, Bat, Park
Homerun

Daddy and Mommy
Sperm and seed
Baby

Carpenter
Wood
Table

God
(blank)
Universe

Do you understand now? Your argument might as well just show that "stuff exists, and used to be other stuff" QED. You are missing your point by a LONG shot.

(August 26, 2013 at 4:07 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: The Creator/God isn't made from physical energy/matter, he doesn't use energy/matter he creates energy/matter.

And you know this how?!

(August 26, 2013 at 4:07 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: If the universe wasn't fined tuned then my car was made by a tornado running through a junkyard, it just happened to come together the way it did, created by the physical laws of nature it was. Before you bring up evolution that was entirely dependent on the laws of nature being what they were to begin with and that is what I'm referring to.

Why do you people always go for a junkyard?... why not a mountain that gets destroyed and mined for ores which then assemble into the whatever machine you're using in your analogy?

Clearly, you didn't read apo's post. Here's the link, again:
https://atheistforums.org/thread-17548-p...#pid427264

Fixed it for ya! Here....https://atheistforums.org/thread-17548-p...#pid427264

(August 26, 2013 at 5:09 pm)Texas Sailor Wrote: Do you understand now? Your argument might as well just show that "stuff exists, and used to be other stuff" QED. You are missing your point by a LONG shot.

It's just a simple deduction of logic. If something begins to exist then something caused it to exist. If something didn't cause it to exist then it wouldn't have begun to exist. We know everything that exists, that didn't always exist, must have been made by something else that exists. The universe we know for a fact had a beginning with the BB therefore it is something that began to exist. This is just factually what we know.

(August 26, 2013 at 5:00 pm)Texas Sailor Wrote: This person must be convinced that they are the only one that has access to the internet, and that nobody has demolished these arguments A BILLION TIMES.

But he's special and unique, and the apologist cut and paste must be fresh to him.

Calling POE or troll.