(August 26, 2013 at 6:05 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote:

(August 26, 2013 at 5:59 pm)Rationalman Wrote: Hey Sword, don't ignore me, how do you know that god exists?

How do you know he doesn't? I believe God exists and you don't. The reasons I believe God exists are being covered.

And yet, you attempted to invoke God (your conclusion) to explain away my issues with your premises. Do you understand why that is fallacious, illogical, circular thinking?

Silly question. Apparently, you don't.

(August 26, 2013 at 6:07 pm)Rationalman Wrote: Typical evasive techniques. Answer the fucking question
How do you know that God exists?

I never said I knew but I'm sure pretty certain God exists for a number of reasons. Some of these reasons are purely logical and based on deduction/philosophy. There is a chance I'm wrong and you're right though I'd say it's a slim chance if your atheism is merely a knee-jerk rejection of what everyone else in the world believes and has faith in.

(August 26, 2013 at 6:19 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: I never said I knew but I'm sure pretty certain God exists for a number of reasons. Some of these reasons are purely logical and based on deduction/philosophy.

Not if your arguments here are anything to go on.

(August 26, 2013 at 6:19 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: There is a chance I'm wrong and you're right though I'd say it's a slim chance if your atheism is merely a knee-jerk rejection of what everyone else in the world believes and has faith in.

Can you even read?

Learning to use reason is less knee-jerk and more cognition. Are you sure you aren't just projecting your own insecurities, SoC?

(August 26, 2013 at 5:30 pm)Texas Sailor Wrote: What you've just done is attempted to switch the burden of proof. If I tell you there's a new kind of gravity, it's not on you to prove that yours is the only one.

If all we know is material, then it follows that the brain, a physical entity, is completely bound by the laws of nature, and therein material itself.

Actually, I am just asking for you to clarify your views so I can understand them.

You see, I liken this exchange to us sitting at a table at a coffee shop and I am asking you about your views because I am interested in understanding how you, as an atheist, answer certain questions that I happen to think are important.

Instead of assuming you believe a ....b.....and c..... I am simply asking you what you believe.

I shall ponder what you have said thus far and get back with you.

(August 26, 2013 at 6:19 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: I never said I knew but I'm sure pretty certain God exists for a number of reasons.

(August 26, 2013 at 6:19 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: but God does actually exist

Liar

(August 26, 2013 at 6:19 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: Some of these reasons are purely logical and based on deduction/philosophy. There is a chance I'm wrong and you're right though I'd say it's a slim chance if your atheism is merely a knee-jerk rejection of what everyone else in the world believes and has faith in.

The arrogance of this.....
what everyone else in the world believes? I'm sorry to inform you that not everyone believes in your god. And there are even some people in the world who don't believe any gods exist. Sorry to burst your bubble.

(August 26, 2013 at 6:24 pm)discipulus Wrote:

(August 26, 2013 at 5:30 pm)Texas Sailor Wrote: What you've just done is attempted to switch the burden of proof. If I tell you there's a new kind of gravity, it's not on you to prove that yours is the only one.

If all we know is material, then it follows that the brain, a physical entity, is completely bound by the laws of nature, and therein material itself.

Actually, I am just asking for you to clarify your views so I can understand them.

You see, I liken this exchange to us sitting at a table at a coffee shop and I am asking you about your views because I am interested in understanding how you, as an atheist, answer certain questions that I happen to think are important.

Instead of assuming you believe a ....b.....and c..... I am simply asking you what you believe.

I shall ponder what you have said thus far and get back with you.

You could have started by stating this. Why the cloak and dagger?

What a grade A, dunce! "Everyone else"? Maybe everyone who's typing on the same keyboard as him/her at that very moment.

(August 26, 2013 at 6:08 pm)BadWriterSparty Wrote: We don't care that god exists because it's not our claim.

No no you're claiming you should not believe God exists unless you have 100% certain scientific proof of some kind (which we don't have obviously). I'm saying you should believe God exists and I'm explaining why you should believe God exists with the logic I've just given you. I'm not just stating what I believe without proof here, I've given you good logical reasons for the belief. It's a very simple deduction of cause and effect and the nature of the single cause of all the effects that exist, whether it be in this universe, other universes or whatever else that exists in reality. You must have one single starting point in common for everything and the starting point has no start itself (point of creation), ie it is outside of time/events in a sequence. You have the cause of the sequence of all events everywhere, and so the prime mover. There is no burden of proof needed for this it follows logically to a conclusion. If there was no cause then there could have been no effects but there was an effect if we're here. There must be only one cause for everything and whatever caused everything is uncaused.

(August 26, 2013 at 5:38 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: The correct answers to the the two questions above are the only "debate" the KCA requires. It renders the assertions made in the first two premises false (or at least, unknowable).

How so?