(September 25, 2013 at 2:40 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: There certainly are atheists who accept Jesus-as-preacher, without all the supernatural baggage. You may as well debate the historicity of Tony Stark without Iron Man.

I prefer Superman without the powers. Or the Visible Man.

(September 25, 2013 at 2:40 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Find me an atheist who believes in Jesus-as-deity-incarnate. I won't hold my breath.

There certainly are atheists who accept Jesus-as-preacher, without all the supernatural baggage. You may as well debate the historicity of Tony Stark without Iron Man.

Then it's incorrect to interpret the passage as referring to atheists, and catfish's point stands. You can't have it both ways.

(September 25, 2013 at 4:57 pm)John V Wrote:

(September 25, 2013 at 2:40 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Find me an atheist who believes in Jesus-as-deity-incarnate. I won't hold my breath.

There certainly are atheists who accept Jesus-as-preacher, without all the supernatural baggage. You may as well debate the historicity of Tony Stark without Iron Man.

Then it's incorrect to interpret the passage as referring to atheists, and catfish's point stands. You can't have it both ways.

I don't recall taking a position on that matter.

(September 25, 2013 at 4:57 pm)John V Wrote:

(September 25, 2013 at 2:40 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Find me an atheist who believes in Jesus-as-deity-incarnate. I won't hold my breath.

There certainly are atheists who accept Jesus-as-preacher, without all the supernatural baggage. You may as well debate the historicity of Tony Stark without Iron Man.

Then it's incorrect to interpret the passage as referring to atheists, and catfish's point stands. You can't have it both ways.

Are you a Christian who does not understand what "Christ" means? (Hint: it wasn't his last name).

So just to recap, I've shown you why the bible is considered the direct word of god given to man through the holy spirit, I've given you numerous verses that state that those who deny the word of god go to hell, I've shown you reasons why one incurs the wrath of god which includes not professing jesus christ as the son of god, I've shown you and godschild what happens to those who are victims of the wrath of god, I've additionally shown you verses that say the unbelievers will be thrown into the lake of fire, I've confirmed numerous times that not just demons and satan go to this eternal torment, I then demonstrated what the BIBLE says about the eternal nature of hell, and you're still here scratching your head? You must be more daft than I thought.

Here we go again, chile.. Do pay attention this time

The Bible is the direct word of god per your own brethren's words here.
Unless you don't believe god is perfect, then his word is perfect as well and that means that the bible is unerring because of the nature of god. (Which, incidentally, has been proven to be in error on this forum more times than I can count.)

Those who deny this go to hell, including but not limited to: unbelievers here.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.

Revelations 21
8 But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and [e]brimstone, which is the second death.”

1 John 5:10-12
The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

Romans 1
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Hell is eternal tormenthere.

God's wrath here.

If anything fishy, the vagueness of my assertion needs clarified, and your claim that I don't have anything to back up my claim that those who don't follow the bible will go to hell is yet again: refuted.

(September 25, 2013 at 10:30 pm)missluckie26 Wrote: So just to recap, I've shown you why the bible is considered the direct word of god given to man through the holy spirit, I've given you numerous verses that state that those who deny the word of god go to hell, I've shown you reasons why one incurs the wrath of god which includes not professing jesus christ as the son of god, I've shown you and godschild what happens to those who are victims of the wrath of god, I've additionally shown you verses that say the unbelievers will be thrown into the lake of fire, I've confirmed numerous times that not just demons and satan go to this eternal torment, I then demonstrated what the BIBLE says about the eternal nature of hell, and you're still here scratching your head? You must be more daft than I thought.

Here we go again, chile.. Do pay attention this time

The Bible is the direct word of god per your own brethren's words here.
Unless you don't believe god is perfect, then his word is perfect as well and that means that the bible is unerring because of the nature of god. (Which, incidentally, has been proven to be in error on this forum more times than I can count.)

Wow, you really aren't that bright, huh? If "proof" constituted linking to CARM, then you'd believe in God, right?
I suppose you ignored my rebuttal to CARM's opening line, I also suppose the guys from CARM missed it too.

Quote:Your opening line from doucebag anonymous wrote:
"Thus says the Lord" occurs over 400 times in the Old Testament.

Really? What do you think happens to the unerring aspect when one of those 400 times says this:
"19.Ezekiel 22:28
And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord God, when the Lord hath not spoken."

Or better yet, why don't I refute the claim you made in the quote above and refute your bf's BS at the same time.
"The Bible is the direct word of god per your own brethren's words "

1 Corinthians 7:12-16
New International Version (NIV)

12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let it be so. The brother or the sister is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16 How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

Verse 12 there is proof against your "direct word of God" claim.

(September 25, 2013 at 10:30 pm)missluckie26 Wrote: <snipped for brevity and to keep missluckie focussed>

If anything fishy, the vagueness of my assertion needs clarified, and your claim that I don't have anything to back up my claim that those who don't follow the bible will go to hell is yet again: refuted.

Romans 2

(September 25, 2013 at 6:44 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: I don't recall taking a position on that matter.

It was a general or collective "you." To clarify, those saying that the John passage refers to unbelievers can't have it both ways.

I'll take a look at it later catfish. He's not my boyfriend, he's the love of my life. big diff

(September 25, 2013 at 3:13 pm)Airyaman Wrote: My answer has absolutely no bearing on the passage itself and also does not effect the actual meaning of the passage. In any case, I looked at the context, and there is absolutely nothing that disqualifies the verse from saying what it says, that deceivers, according to the author, are those who do not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. That would cover about any atheist I know.

You're right, that answer has no direct bearing on what is actually written there. However, your answer will affect how I view your intelligence from here on out.

Now, if you can't demonstrate that you understand the context of your own words, why should I have confidence in your ability to understand the context of others'?

(September 26, 2013 at 6:50 pm)catfish Wrote:

(September 25, 2013 at 3:13 pm)Airyaman Wrote: My answer has absolutely no bearing on the passage itself and also does not effect the actual meaning of the passage. In any case, I looked at the context, and there is absolutely nothing that disqualifies the verse from saying what it says, that deceivers, according to the author, are those who do not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. That would cover about any atheist I know.

You're right, that answer has no direct bearing on what is actually written there. However, your answer will affect how I view your intelligence from here on out.

Now, if you can't demonstrate that you understand the context of your own words, why should I have confidence in your ability to understand the context of others'?

In the end, I really don't give a damn about what you think. I can see from just a few exchanges that your posts will likely be passed on by with my mouse wheel in the future because I already waste enough time as it is.