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RE: How can a god, that apparently loves everyone, allow this kind of thing to happen?
October 22, 2013 at 11:05 am
(This post was last modified: October 22, 2013 at 11:11 am by Huggy Bear.)
(October 22, 2013 at 10:51 am)Zazzy Wrote: (October 22, 2013 at 10:37 am)Huggy74 Wrote: I guess we forgot that 2/3 of the angels fell, and that these demons (the word demon meaning "tormentor") are on the earth running amok because the original sin. Provide evidence for angels. Provide evidence that 2/3 of them fell. provide evidence that they are tormentors. Provide evidence that they are on Earth. Provide evidence that original sin actually occurred. Provide evidence that that's why demons run amok.
Hint: The words of an ancient book of mythology aren't evidence.
Oh- and your video is bullshit. If you want to be that gullible, by all means go for it.
First of all I was talking to the OP who brought up God and my answer in in that context. whether or not god exists is another discussion. And as for the video, you're certainly entitled to your opinion.
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RE: How can a god, that apparently loves everyone, allow this kind of thing to happen?
October 22, 2013 at 11:11 am
(This post was last modified: October 22, 2013 at 11:11 am by DLJ.)
Angels? Really?
I've only just joined and I'm beginning to think this is a satire / parody site.
Please advise.
The PURPOSE of life is to replicate our DNA ................. (from Darwin)
The MEANING of life is the experience of living ... (from Frank Herbert)
The VALUE of life is the legacy we leave behind ..... (from observation)
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RE: How can a god, that apparently loves everyone, allow this kind of thing to happen?
October 22, 2013 at 11:17 am
(This post was last modified: October 22, 2013 at 11:19 am by Bad Wolf.)
(October 22, 2013 at 9:56 am)John V Wrote: I have to disagree. You're talking about god, and in the Christianity section. I think the Bible is fair (and generally necessary) to use.
Once you can prove that the bible is reliable and valid, then I will deem it acceptable to use in this discussion
(October 22, 2013 at 10:37 am)Huggy74 Wrote: I guess we forgot that 2/3 of the angels fell, and that these demons (the word demon meaning "tormentor") are on the earth running amok because the original sin.
Go troll somewhere else
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: How can a god, that apparently loves everyone, allow this kind of thing to happen?
October 22, 2013 at 11:20 am
(This post was last modified: October 22, 2013 at 11:23 am by John V.)
(October 22, 2013 at 10:06 am)Zazzy Wrote: Which is it, John? Since you would compromise on this, it must mean you don't care about these lives either. I don't think you understand the meaning of compromise.
Quote:You can't have it both ways. Either it's murder or it's not murder.
One murder is better than a million and one murders. Compromise.
Quote:What I think is that this decision is up to the family who faces such a terrible scenario. It's not up to you or me to make such a decision for them.
People are calling me a dick regarding what I think I would do with my own family.
Quote:And given that, I don't think making the decision to have such a child is evil, although I made a bet with myself after my last post that you would try to twist my words this way (and I win!). It's not up to me to judge what other intelligent people do with their own bodies.
You're of course welcome to this clarification, but my interpretation was not a twist of your words. They're there for all to see.
Quote:Many such children never get old enough to know what hope is. They're babies in terrible pain until they die. That's all they'll ever know of life- pain. You clearly think it's OK for abortion to happen under such a circumstance. Me, too. But it isn't up to either one of us.
No, I do not clearly think abortion is OK in such a circumstance. Again, that's a compromise position.
(October 22, 2013 at 10:16 am)Faith No More Wrote: That's a terrible defense for an omnipotent god.
No one is saying that god should babysit, but why would a god who is responsible for the existence of everything allow little children that have done nothing to deserve it to suffer? If god allows it, it either must be necessary, or god is cruel. What necessity does such suffering provide? The suffering of the baby affects a lot of other people as well. It could be necessary for them.
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RE: How can a god, that apparently loves everyone, allow this kind of thing to happen?
October 22, 2013 at 11:27 am
Quote:People are calling me a dick regarding what I think I would do with my own family.
Not people, just me.. whether they agree or not hasn't been determined.
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RE: How can a god, that apparently loves everyone, allow this kind of thing to happen?
October 22, 2013 at 11:28 am
(This post was last modified: October 22, 2013 at 11:31 am by catfish.)
(October 22, 2013 at 6:14 am)Rationalman Wrote: (October 22, 2013 at 3:35 am)catfish Wrote: Are you going to keep asking the same question again and again? Are you going to answer it?
Again? No....
I'm going to sit back until you claim that I'm avoiding that question, then I will point you to the couple of posts above the one quoted. 
(October 22, 2013 at 6:14 am)Rationalman Wrote: (October 22, 2013 at 3:35 am)catfish Wrote: You do realise this is all just an appeal to emotion anyways, right?
Not really no. I'm weighing the benefits and negatives of living in unbearable pain and suffering and dying when you are a toddler with non life. No pain or suffering. No emotion is necessary to evaluate two situations.
Are you aiming for the Hall of Shame?
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RE: How can a god, that apparently loves everyone, allow this kind of thing to happen?
October 22, 2013 at 11:30 am
(October 22, 2013 at 11:05 am)Huggy74 Wrote: First of all I was talking to the OP who brought up God and my answer in in that context. whether or not god exists is another discussion. This is an open forum. You don't get to pick who responds to you. If you want a private conversation, do it by PM. Now how about that evidence, since the OP is probably also dying to see it.
Quote: And as for the video, you're certainly entitled to your opinion.
I sure am, and I'm entitled to express it openly on this forum. Now how about that evidence?
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RE: How can a god, that apparently loves everyone, allow this kind of thing to happen?
October 22, 2013 at 11:31 am
Quote:Are you aiming for the Hall of Shame?
There's rumours they're going to rename it in his honour..
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RE: How can a god, that apparently loves everyone, allow this kind of thing to happen?
October 22, 2013 at 11:31 am
(October 22, 2013 at 11:17 am)Rationalman Wrote: Go troll somewhere else
Or how about you stop asking questions about subjects in which you really don't want to know the answer.
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RE: How can a god, that apparently loves everyone, allow this kind of thing to happen?
October 22, 2013 at 11:32 am
(October 22, 2013 at 10:51 am)Esquilax Wrote: I'd say it was omitted because, as usual, your comparison is entirely invalid: in the latter case, the eternal suffering after the temporary sin is set up as some kind of justice, and inherently, a finite crime cannot entail infinite punishment by the very definition of what justice is intended to achieve. The reason we argue that is because your desperate need to turn an inherently unjust act into a just one is dishonest, and we feel it needs correcting. You're spinning. The comparison is valid. If finite crimes aren't comparable to eternal punishment, then neither is finite suffering comparable to eternal happiness. Speaking of desperate needs, you're really showing such with this argument.
Quote:In the former case... there's simply no reason to inflict this kind of pain from birth. There's no purpose it could serve, no good it can accomplish, and so by the bounds of your theology there's no reason why your god should design such a thing into the world to begin with... and yet, there it is.
Suffering can serve a purpose and accomplish good in those touched by it. It affects more than the baby you know.
Quote:At least in the latter case you present some pretense as to why infinite suffering awaits; in the former, all you can do is shrug and seek to minimize the pain of individuals who are completely innocent and cannot possibly deserve the pain they're getting now.
Incorrect. I didn't shrug. The question just hadn't come up yet, and the answer is so obvious I'm amazed it did come up. Again, suffering in one person affects other people, too.
Quote:It's just callousness; these aren't human beings to you, because they don't serve to benefit your arguments, and so their suffering? Meaningless.
Oh yes, the people advocating life and hope are callous. The people saying to just abort it and move on are the caring ones.
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