(October 22, 2013 at 9:59 am)Faith No More Wrote:

(October 22, 2013 at 9:14 am)enrico Wrote: Where is the evidence that we are finite?

I could give it to you, but you wouldn't be around to examine it. And I would probably go to prison, too.

That wouldn't be any evidence at all.
The vehicle can get wreck, so what.
Who told you that the vehicle or the body is you?
Santa?

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(October 22, 2013 at 12:49 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: Actually enrico that is a question, but here is some evidence that our mind (consciousness) is directly dependant on the brain

As far as exist a parallelism among body, mind and consciousness it is clear that everything is connect to each other and therefore one can not work without the other.
Physical death occur when the body can not keep this parallelism with all the rest.
That does not mean that consciousness die as well.
When the body or vehicle get wreck what the driver does in order to continue his journey toward the goal?
Simple, he will take a new vehicle through the reincarnation process.

One more thing.
If you do not know what is the difference between the mind and the I or consciousness you should not speculate on this important subject.

(October 23, 2013 at 10:27 am)enrico Wrote: That wouldn't be any evidence at all.
The vehicle can get wreck, so what.
Who told you that the vehicle or the body is you?
Santa?

If I'm wrong, you can come back in your spiritual form and tell me.

If not, tough shit.

(October 22, 2013 at 12:57 pm)Zazzy Wrote:

(October 22, 2013 at 9:14 am)enrico Wrote: Where is the evidence that we are finite?

Every single shred of evidence from the mountains of studies of neurobiology and neurochemistry show that when you end brain activity, you end the self. You can end the self even before the body dies. Not ONE PIECE of evidence from all these studies indicates ANYTHING but that the brain is the seat of the self.

More nonsense going on.
Can you touch the consciousness?
Can you smell it? Can you see it?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO/
As i said time after time physical science can not leave the border of the corral in which it is relegated and go into a different dimension in which higher form of lives are located.
Even 2000 years ago somebody said..........Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's.

Quote:I keep asking theists about Alzheimer's Disease, and they keep not answering it. WHERE IS THE SOUL of a person with advanced AD who has lost every hint of their essential self (and had their loved ones watch each piece of it go over time)? Is it trapped for years in a useless body? Has it already left the body?

I never seen your question before so don't say theistS.
But here i am with the answer.
When the vehicle is getting more and more wrecked but is not already completely wreck the driver does not have much choices but keep on carrying on with that piece of wreck until the wreck collapse 100% so he can get a new vehicle in tune with his karma.
Again it does not mean that the consciousness is not there.
It is there but unable to do anything due to the personal karma.

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(October 23, 2013 at 11:07 am)Faith No More Wrote:

(October 23, 2013 at 10:27 am)enrico Wrote: That wouldn't be any evidence at all.
The vehicle can get wreck, so what.
Who told you that the vehicle or the body is you?
Santa?

If I'm wrong, you can come back in your spiritual form and tell me.
If not, tough shit.

No, i will not come back to tell you anything.
You will have to learn by yourself the hard way.
That is how the system works.
As i said before nothing material or mental is for free.
There is only one thing that is for free and that is spirituality but that is something that you will know in future when you will stop chasing dreams and relay instead on reality.

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(October 23, 2013 at 10:21 am)Esquilax Wrote: All of the available evidence suggests that we do not persist after our death. Your claim is the one that flies in the face of the available science, and therefore you're the one who has to justify it.
But you won't, because you're enrico, and I'm convinced that you're just rolling your face over the keyboard, rather than thinking before you post.

Again you rely on PHYSICAL science which in no way can exit the corral in which is located and go into the realm of higher dimension.
So there is NO WAY that this science can tell anything about consciousness.

Again if you guys say that we are finite you MUST bring real evidence of it not farts or speculation.

(October 23, 2013 at 11:08 am)enrico Wrote: Again you rely on PHYSICAL science which in no way can exit the corral in which is located and go into the realm of higher dimension.

I'm not arrogant enough to rely on bullshit like you.

(October 23, 2013 at 11:07 am)Faith No More Wrote: If I'm wrong, you can come back in your spiritual form and tell me.

"He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ 30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

You don't want to believe because you don't want to believe it has nothing to do with evidence or "what science has proved" one way or the other.

(October 23, 2013 at 10:27 am)enrico Wrote:

(October 22, 2013 at 9:59 am)Faith No More Wrote: I could give it to you, but you wouldn't be around to examine it. And I would probably go to prison, too.

That wouldn't be any evidence at all.
The vehicle can get wreck, so what.
Who told you that the vehicle or the body is you?
Santa?

... the christian decides to be glib about Santa when he himself believes in a magic wizard that lives in another dimension, that no one has ever seen, and that used primitive desert nomads to attempt inspiring people.

Good one Einstein.

(October 23, 2013 at 11:33 am)Sword of Christ Wrote: "He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ 30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

You don't want to believe because you don't want to believe it has nothing to do with evidence or "what science has proved" one way or the other.

So, I see we've reverted back to the old condescending SoC that is arrogant enough to tell others what is going on inside their head. And here I had high hopes that you'd actually changed.

Asshole.

Yes, it's the old "You'll never be convinced no matter what evidence is shown to you" claim. Usually given in response as to why God never reveals himself to those who don't believe. It's just another cop out. If they pull that one out then they think they're exempt from providing evidence of their claims.

(October 23, 2013 at 11:33 am)Sword of Christ Wrote: You don't want to believe because you don't want to believe it has nothing to do with evidence or "what science has proved" one way or the other.

Do you know how people come off when they refuse to believe a truth that, according to you, is blindingly obvious?

Happily, we don't need to guess, because we have some great petri dishes; take a look at how people react to the claims of a flat earth, or geocentrism, or hell, we've got a whole thread still going here about the 9/11 conspiracy theory.

These people don't have credibility, Sword. And yet here are the atheists, a growing group, with famous proponents, the occasional news spot, all sorts. Our position still has the credibility that other positions that you claim are in the same category, lack. You need to confront the idea that either we have more of a point than you're willing to admit, or your side isn't as compelling as you think.

(October 23, 2013 at 11:33 am)Sword of Christ Wrote:

(October 23, 2013 at 11:07 am)Faith No More Wrote: If I'm wrong, you can come back in your spiritual form and tell me.

"He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ 30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

You don't want to believe because you don't want to believe it has nothing to do with evidence or "what science has proved" one way or the other.

Wait, SOC, so you're telling me that the cops knew internal affairs was setting them up!?