(November 7, 2013 at 6:12 am)Tonus Wrote:

(November 6, 2013 at 8:56 pm)Godschild Wrote: The cutoff as you put it, salvation. No that is determined by what one does here. Very simple to understand, God did not make this hard.

That isn't what I was referring to. How much "good" is sufficient to get one into heaven? If we are to speak of the fairness of eternal reward and punishment, then we would need to understand that everyone gets one or the other, no? The person who barely does enough to escape hell gets the same eternal reward as the most virtuous person who ever lived. The person who falls just short of heaven gets the same eternal punishment as the most vile and despicable person who ever lived. Does either scenario strike you as fair?

I did not say everyone in heaven would have equal reward nor did I say everyone in hell will have the same punishment, the scriptures tell us this. No one can Get into heaven by being good, God says no man is good not one, only through your acceptance of Christ and His righteousness can you get into heaven. This is exactly what I said in my last post to you, only a little more detailed.

GC

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(November 7, 2013 at 8:15 am)Brakeman Wrote:

(November 7, 2013 at 1:44 am)Godschild Wrote: His ultimate will reigns, and yes He cares what you want or He would not have given you a choice.

GC

The bag boy gives me a choice of paper or plastic, but is just as irrelevant.

God is completely ignoring my will not to participate in his afterlife scheme.
If I kidnap a woman and give her a choice of being raped vaginally or anally have I truly considered her free will? Is it ok because I gave her a choice?

oh and
You seem to love these so much!

You did not give her a choice, you the rapist told her you were going to rape her, period. But, someone with the mental depravity you have couldn't see that, right?
When they fit they are quite effective as you just pointed out.

GC

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(November 7, 2013 at 8:38 am)Optimistic Mysanthrope Wrote:

(November 7, 2013 at 1:44 am)Godschild Wrote: You might believe that now but, wait till you die, your story will change.

GC

No. When I die, my story will end.

As I always say death will reveal the truth.

GC

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(November 7, 2013 at 11:08 am)Zazzy Wrote:

(November 7, 2013 at 1:44 am)Godschild Wrote: You might believe that now but, wait till you die, your story will change.

It must be really great to get so much smug satisfaction out of this threat. You'll be able to watch us all suffer from your nice comfy cloud, and won't we be sorry then!

Wasn't trying to be smug, that's just something you wanted to believe. Scripture says no one in heaven will ever see what happens in hell, only those who are there will know.

GC

GC's literal interpretation of sardonic responses is always amusing.

(November 7, 2013 at 2:40 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(November 7, 2013 at 8:15 am)Brakeman Wrote: The bag boy gives me a choice of paper or plastic, but is just as irrelevant.

God is completely ignoring my will not to participate in his afterlife scheme.
If I kidnap a woman and give her a choice of being raped vaginally or anally have I truly considered her free will? Is it ok because I gave her a choice?

You did not give her a choice, you the rapist told her you were going to rape her, period. But, someone with the mental depravity you have couldn't see that, right?
When they fit they are quite effective as you just pointed out.

The rapist gives her a valid choice, just not the choice that the woman wishes, presumably one to be left alone. In the same vein, god does not give me the choice I desire, which is to be left alone after I die and not be forced to go to heaven or hell.

(November 7, 2013 at 2:40 pm)Godschild Wrote: You did not give her a choice, you the rapist told her you were going to rape her, period. But, someone with the mental depravity you have couldn't see that, right?
When they fit they are quite effective as you just pointed out.

GC's standard tactic: be obtuse, and attack, attack, attack.

So, given that you've basically admitted that an imposed binary choice (rape one way or another/ heaven or hell) doesn't take into account free will... I think you're kind of done, GC.

(November 7, 2013 at 6:32 pm)Brakeman Wrote:

(November 7, 2013 at 2:40 pm)Godschild Wrote: You did not give her a choice, you the rapist told her you were going to rape her, period. But, someone with the mental depravity you have couldn't see that, right?
When they fit they are quite effective as you just pointed out.

The rapist gives her a valid choice, just not the choice that the woman wishes, presumably one to be left alone. In the same vein, god does not give me the choice I desire, which is to be left alone after I die and not be forced to go to heaven or hell.

Ain't going to happen.

GC

(November 7, 2013 at 6:51 pm)Godschild Wrote: Ain't going to happen.

GC

Then choose; front door, or back door?

The 'choice' has been thrust upon you by a loving rapist.

(November 7, 2013 at 2:40 pm)Godschild Wrote: As I always say death will reveal the truth.
GC

Have you ever considered inserting the words "I believe" into your posts? It might solve some problems.

(November 7, 2013 at 4:39 am)ToriJ Wrote:

(November 6, 2013 at 3:28 pm)Godschild Wrote: Scripture tells us that God doesn't tempt, so how is it you can blame God for your sin, did He force you to make wrong decisions. If you happen to be talking about Adam and Eve, then you must believe that God shouldn't have given us choice.

If your child disobeyed you would you throw him into a fire and watch him burn? Would you then proceed to do the same to his offspring?

btw, God forced the pharaoh to sin against him. He hardened his heart so that he wouldn't let his people go and then proceeded to kill every first born son in Egypt.

If I threw him in a fire how would he have offspring. The punishment I would set for my son would be given to him if he disobeyed, of coarse I would not throw him in a fire. Your trying to compare a finite situation to an infinite one.

(November 5, 2013 at 2:21 pm)Godschild Wrote: That's all you got, surely you can do better than that, is the temple the same as the church. The temple is a building after all.

ToriJ Wrote:tem·ple1
ˈtempəl/
noun
noun: temple; plural noun: temples

1.
a building devoted to the worship, or regarded as the dwelling place, of a god or gods or other objects of religious reverence.
synonyms: house of God, house of worship, shrine, sanctuary; More
church, cathedral, mosque, synagogue, shul;
archaicfane
"at the altar of the temple"
either of two successive religious buildings of the Jews in Jerusalem. The first (957–586 BC) was built by Solomon and destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar; it contained the Ark of the Covenant. The second (515 BC–AD 70) was enlarged by Herod the Great from 20 BC and destroyed by the Romans during a Jewish revolt; all that remains is the Western Wall.
noun: Temple; noun: the Temple
a group of buildings in Fleet Street in London that stand on land formerly occupied by the headquarters of the Knights Templar. Located there are the Inner and Outer Temple, two of the Inns of Court.
noun: the Temple
a synagogue.
a place of Christian public worship, esp. a Protestant church in France.
synonyms: house of God, house of worship, shrine, sanctuary;
church, cathedral, mosque, synagogue, shul;
archaicfane
"at the altar of the temple"

Source

You were saying?

I'm still saying you do not know the difference between the two.

(November 6, 2013 at 3:28 pm)Godschild Wrote: I do not know of any Christians that condone slavery, yet there are tens of thousands of atheist who believe in slave trafficking young girls in the sex slave trade.

ToriJ Wrote:Source?

You're surely not that naive, do you ever watch the news, check the net it's all over the place.

(November 6, 2013 at 3:28 pm)Godschild Wrote: It's your responsibility to learn, if you believed the church was teaching you wrong you should have gone to scripture to find the truth.

ToriJ Wrote:I did. The scripture supported their teachings. It seems to be you who are going against God's word.

How am I going against God's word? I do not understand what you are referring to.

(November 6, 2013 at 3:28 pm)Godschild Wrote: You are the one who chooses hell, you could choose Christ you know.

ToriJ Wrote:You have the following choices, which do you choose?

A.) Kill yourself
B.) Cut off your hand
C.) Ask why your only options are A and B

Why wasn't I given a positive choice, that's not better than the rapist asking the woman in what manner do you want to be raped, no positive choice. You know God gave me the same choices He has given you, I chose the positive one and am happy with it.

(November 7, 2013 at 7:49 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(November 7, 2013 at 4:39 am)ToriJ Wrote: If your child disobeyed you would you throw him into a fire and watch him burn? Would you then proceed to do the same to his offspring?

btw, God forced the pharaoh to sin against him. He hardened his heart so that he wouldn't let his people go and then proceeded to kill every first born son in Egypt.

If I threw him in a fire how would he have offspring.

Presumably prior to the burning.

Quote:The punishment I would set for my son would be given to him if he disobeyed, of coarse I would not throw him in a fire. Your trying to compare a finite situation to an infinite one.

When you put it like that, perpetual torment is practically a kindness.

(November 7, 2013 at 7:49 pm)Godschild Wrote: I'm still saying you do not know the difference between the two.

That's clearly not true. A church is a christian temple. If you're planning on referring to ecclesiastical authority/body of believers then you're just playing semantics.

(November 7, 2013 at 6:51 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(November 7, 2013 at 6:32 pm)Brakeman Wrote: The rapist gives her a valid choice, just not the choice that the woman wishes, presumably one to be left alone. In the same vein, god does not give me the choice I desire, which is to be left alone after I die and not be forced to go to heaven or hell.

Ain't going to happen.

GC

And with that we are right back to my original premise.

(November 6, 2013 at 10:22 pm)Brakeman Wrote: So god doesn't care what people want, only what he wants.