Since the commandment is "thou shalt do no murder" not "thou shalt not kill", the question becomes "What is murder?" Theists will respond that when God commands death it's not murder, so it's wholly dishonest for theists to pretend to answer that question unbiased.

Good point, and it took you way less words than what I was going to type!

I'm not getting a reply. Again. Hmph.

The one about arabic being read right to left? I don't know.

(November 26, 2013 at 5:55 pm)Chad32 Wrote: The one about arabic being read right to left? I don't know.

Not you, avoidaiah.

(November 26, 2013 at 4:44 am)Avodaiah Wrote: That child had done nothing even remotely anti-Christian, let alone something worthy of death. Therefore he was innocent.
So the answer is no. If I had a revelation telling me to murder the innocent, I would not follow it.

First of all, I don't think the blood is on your hands. But I am saying that you are in no position to criticize this man's actions. You didn't answer my question. Pay close attention to the details in this question, and pay attention to your thought process that guides your response.

I asked you if you were sure that it was God. You knew it in your mind without doubt, it was God. It's sure in your heart as Christ's love is to you. You believe God speaks to you, you admit that you know for sure it's God, and not a delusion. Please don't ignore the question. Be honest here.

I know it makes you feel good to think that God loves you. I used to be a Christian and say the same things you've been spouting. But how do you know it's true and not a delusion? You "hear" God in some way, and you're sure that it's God you hear and not your inner desire to blindly assume. If God told you to kill and it sounded the same as what you feel when he speaks to you in all the other ways, how do you tell the difference? Remember, this is God speaking to you directly, it wouldn't make much sense to tell God no because God said no. He's telling you NOW to do something, who are you to question it?

God tells you to kill all left handed people, and you don't do it? You're sure it's God, but dismiss it on the grounds that God told you not to do what God tells you to do? In this experiment, you have to think for yourself. Not even The Bible is going to guide you through this. God is talking directly to you, and giving you specific instructions. The Bible is irrelevant. I don't care about old testament or new testament laws. The last sentence of Revelations could read "Don't ever kill left-handed people" and it wouldn't supersede the most recent instruction given directly to you by God Himself. Would it? The man that heard this voice was more loyal to what he thought was the voice of God. How do you know it's not? How do you know that he wasn't given specific instructions from God? You even believe that the child being decapitated was God's will, right? Was God powerless to stop it? Was something standing in his way? God works in mysterious ways, right? When God closes a door, he opens a window, right? God must have had a reason for having that child decapitated, and the testimony of this Christian man should be satisfying to you. God ordered him to do it, and no man should question God, right? Don't back pedal here, but pay attention to your thought process. The solution is very simple, you just have to see it.

You have recognized that even if God told you to do something ridiculous, you wouldn't do it. Congratulations, that's a good sign. But, you're not quite out of the woods yet. You still haven't figured out why you wouldn't do it. Because "God said not to 2,000 years ago in a really old book" won't get you out of this. God is telling you something NOW. We've established that there is something God could tell you to do, and you would know better and not do it. Even if you were SURE it was God.

My next question to you is this: What things does God say to you? and how do you know you aren't suffering from a self-induced delusion?

Is a misrepresentation of reality something that can be recognized? If so, and you choose to ignore it, would that be a delusion?

Explain...

Mental gymnastics to follow. If not, then Avo will have some respect when true honesty ensues.

Hi everyone, sorry I haven't been posting for a while, but finals week just ended for me a few days ago and I've been pretty busy lately.
Anyway...

BadWriterSparty Wrote:Mental gymnastics to follow. If not, then Avo will have some respect when true honesty ensues.

Nope, no mental gymnastics. I'll answer it as simply as I can.
If I knew for sure that God was telling me to do something, I would listen to Him. It doesn't matter how nonsensical or wrong it would seem to me.
But let me be very clear about something: If I want to know for sure that it's God telling me something, I'd better be SURE it's God. It can't be a feeling I have, because feelings can come from the world. Drugs, colors, pictures, even magnetic waves can influence feelings. It also can't be an audible voice, because then I can't be sure whose voice it is. For all I know, it could just be my mind hallucinating. (This has happened to me twice when I was younger, once when I was extremely tired and once when I had a fever and had taken Motrin. But I digress.) There is one place I can go to know what God wants from me, and it's this 2000-year-old book you want me to forget about.
Sorry, but that's not going to happen. I can honestly say that I have more faith in this book than I do in my own senses. (Yes, I know how insane I sound, but I said I'd tell the straight truth, and this is it.) I have so much faith in the Bible and the biblical God for much the same reason C.S. Lewis said: Not because I can see Him, but because of Him I can see everything else. PBB, this, in a nutshell, is what I was trying to explain earlier. I believe more than what I myself, with my 18 senses, can sense. I believe that the Bible is completely, absolutely true. This is why I disagree with the man who killed his son, and it is why I would not kill all left-handed people.
This is the straight truth. If it makes me sound ignorant, stupid, insane, wicked, or all four at once, so be it.
One more thing:

MindForgedManacle Wrote:This couldn't have been easily added after the fact as a post hoc rationalization of why their war god had failed them against Babylon? Seriously? Dude, this is what I mean when I say you need to think more critically about these. These are easily explained by human folly and/or malice.

Sorry, I was focusing on the fact that some of the prophecies were specific instead of them all being vague. As for the time when they were written, as far as I know, we have little/no more in the way of evidence for dating the prophets than for any other historical writing: We have the unanimously accepted dates from the Jewish people, who learned and copied these writings from their teachers. Not only that, but the modern consensus on the dates of these writings give dates that would make the writings prophetic as well. Isaiah 1-39 was written before the exile to Babylon; 40-55 were written during it, the rest was written after, for example (link). Even Muslim and Baha'i religions accept him as a prophet.
So my question to you is: Why is there no record, no literature, no evidence of any kind, that anyone from after the fact knew the prophecy was a fake? Or is there evidence like that? (I haven't found any, but I may not have looked hard enough.) Without that, all the evidence points to this book being truly prophetic.
You don't have to answer these questions. I know this thread is all but dead now, and this might be the last post I make on it. If I haven't cleared anything up for you I hope I've at least made some of you think about this stuff and you've gotten more out of it than just one more resident theist's existence on the forum.
God bless,
Avodaiah

(December 19, 2013 at 5:36 am)Avodaiah Wrote: There is one place I can go to know what God wants from me, and it's this 2000-year-old book you want me to forget about.

The entirety of that book, or just the bits that appeal to you, with the rest falling to spin and interpretation? For example, do you own slaves? That's a pretty consistently endorsed thing, so we avoid the excuse of "that's the old testament!" but by the same token, do you follow the old testament laws or not? If not, it's based on Jesus bringing a new covenant, right? But he said he hadn't come to change the law, so...

That's the big question: how do you know the interpretations you simply need to employ to avoid being arrested are a part of god's plan to begin with?

Avo, quick question. If you are so worried about whether a personal answer comes from your god, then I'm surprised you aren't equally worried about the writings in that 2000 year old book. Isn't it possible that the divine inspiration given to its writers could have been flawed or even nonexistent? Did they have a 2000 year old book of divine prophecy to rely on just like you do today?