There is nothing a religious organization can do that a secular one can't do with as much money. Yes christians will still tell other christians that they're in danger of hell, unless they follow the exact guidelines that the person who is warning them follows. I have been to places that say no one deserves heaven. Every single person in the world deserves hell, from the guy on the street to the pope himself. It's only by prostrating yourself and begging forgiveness that Yahweh will have mercy and bring you to heaven. Despite the fact that you and me and Francis deserves hellfire.

Going on feeling is the only thing you can do when it comes to supernatural matters. There's no concrete evidence.

(December 16, 2013 at 4:54 pm)xpastor Wrote: Christians, please give the reasons for your belief.

The JWs believe that we're long into the End Times. About 130 or so years into them, give or take. Which means that the end is really really really REALLY CLOSE NOW.

Honestly I think part of the reason people think things are getting so much worse lately is that we're able to hear of events that we wouldn't have heard before 50-100 years ago. Things probably seem worse than we think because we're hearing about stuff happening in countries that we didn't have as close contact with until recently.

(December 21, 2013 at 6:03 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Honestly I think part of the reason people think things are getting so much worse lately is that we're able to hear of events that we wouldn't have heard before 50-100 years ago. Things probably seem worse than we think because we're hearing about stuff happening in countries that we didn't have as close contact with until recently.

People who think things are getting worse are seriously deluded about the past, have never studied it. Proportionately, there were at least as many child molesters 60 years ago as today, but it got hushed up back then. The stats are quite clear, murder and other violent crimes have been dropping in the last few decades.

As for life in earlier centuries, Dickens paints a very realistic picture of what it was like to be poor in the 19th century.

In 18th century London there were street gangs to rival anything we have today and not much in the way of policing.

And how about living somewhere that the Vikings paid a visit to in the 8th century?

The 21st century is a pretty good time to be alive.

GC Wrote:How is it that a person who states his Religious view: Haven't a clue, becomes a Spiritual Gnostic Christian, very interesting.

tmm Wrote:Actually its not that hard to be a Spiritual Gnostic Christian, It actually makes more sense when you realise that the book you are reading as a load of Junk and that it was made up with Political means. I believe that Jesus came here to teach enlightenment and to find truth, This is why I do not believe in the Bible.

How were the scriptures made up for political reasons. The NT was written in less than a fifty year period, by men we know who were not politically motivated. What do you man Jesus came here, where was He before, what truth was He looking for. How is it a man that comes looking for truth can teach enlightenment.

GC Wrote:I did not say all prophecy had been completed, I stated that most of the prophecies have been completed, most of what's left are about the very last days. Your correct that the end time prophecies are vague when it comes to time, however you have to remember Jesus said no one but the Father knows when He (Jesus) will return.

tmm Wrote:But where is your proof that Prophecy has been completed. Please give me examples of these Prophecies that are coherent and are directly to the point. I do not expect you to give me Apologetics I just want an answer that is clear as day.

Jesus, his death, his resurrection, even though you will deny this. One you can't deny, the establishment of Israel as a nation after more than 2000 years, I'll say this again Israel is the only nation reestablished after this great length of time. That man will search after their own truth and deny God's truth.

tmm Wrote:I do not believe that Jesus is God he always shown subordination to the Father, in fact the Holy Spirit is what made Jesus divine – Nothing else. Jesus himself was nothing special the Holy Spirit was the entity doing all the work. Sure Jesus himself on the mount of olives asked to forfeit being nailed to a cross.

Of coarse, He lowered Himself to serve the Father and follow His will, Jesus made this plain. The Holy Spirit came upon Jesus to guide Jesus the man in God's will. Jesus said on the mount, not my will but your will be done Father. Jesus laid down His royalty and power to come and serve His Father as a man, He came to teach us how we as humans can do the same.

GC Wrote:As I explained above Jesus said only the Father knows the time. Jesus said that the world would be like the days of Noah at the end. He said man would be lovers of himself, in other words selfish and if people believe man is less selfish today than 60 years ago the are deceiving themselves. God wasn't going to give the date at which Christ would return, the churches would be full of people who would be there out of fear and not because they wanted a relationship with Christ.

tmm Wrote:How does Jesus know the world will be like the days of Noah why did he not give us a direct to the point scene?

Jesus being God knows what the future will be like and, He did give us a scene, go read about the days of Noah, it want take long it's laid out plain and simple.

tmm Wrote:The way you make it sound is that it was all hearsay – How can Jesus know the end if he actually doesn’t know the time?

Jesus said only the Father knows the appointed time. Jesus said that in the last days His people will recognize the end is near and that we should be diligent in our faith.
I know the sun will set tomorrow, but not the exact time, unless I ask someone who knows the exact time.

tmm Wrote:Actually this Generation is not much different than any other. 500 Years ago people were selfish Kings cared only for themselves and left others out same with the Religious elite.

Christ warned us against using only part of the prophecy to believe the end is near, but this is one part of the puzzle so to speak. The selfishness I'm referring to is the turning away from God, man living by his own truth, denying what God teaches. I do not want to side track this by mentioning certain things, so for now I'll stop here. The religious elite that you're probably referring to are few and full of deceit.

tmm Wrote:Also where do you get the view that people are selfish? Is it through the news because if it is you should know that the news is not an indication of the state of the world.

I see it for myself almost every day and not through TV but through personal experience. Many people I talk to tell me of their experiences with people and how selfish and irresponsible they are, it's a real take on the real world.

GC Wrote:Of coarse, who else would it be, the name is the clue for the Israelites, God with us. yes I know the name does not appear in the NT, however Jesus does, prophecy complete.

tmm Wrote:Ok so instead of explaining how Immanuel vs Jesus are the same you just assume it because you don’t think it could be anyone else. What about Matthias? Was he not the son of a Virgin?

The prophecy stands own it's own, Jesus was God with us and Mary knew that Jesus was the Son of God, that's what the prophecy is about. Mary knew she had become pregnant without being with a man and the angel also told her this was going to happen, so how couldn't Jesus be the fulfillment of the prophecy. Can you tell me who else fulfilled the many prophecies about God's Son? No I do not believe Matthias was born of a virgin.

GC Wrote:If your first sentence above is true then why Christ, why the writings of the NT. Christ's bride is the church, not a building, but the people who make up the church. Heaven is not achievable by death, some will be changed at Christ's return who are alive at the time. Faith in what Christ will do is why people will be in heaven. People today wouldn't be able to understand Christ's explanation of heaven, so why should He tell the disciples.

tmm Wrote:Ok here is something you need help with – The BIBLE is a book made by men with a political gain heck it’s been added to and edited for so many years so can you say it’s the inspired word of God when it needs re-translated?

First you need to show me the other writings, you know the ones that were changed. Yes I know there are a few verses we believe could be additions, however that doesn't mean those verses were not in the original and placed into an incomplete writing. The Bible has be translated many time as we've learned more about the ancient languages it was originally written in. I wouldn't say the Bible has been re-translated, it's been better translated as we learn the ancient languages. There are still words we do not know the exact meaning of in some of the old manuscripts.

tmm Wrote:I don’t think the Disciples needed to know because heaven was not for them or for Humans so why would we need to know?

We are given a small description of heaven, so we do know some about it, Jesus said He was going to build us mansions, I haven't seen Him doing that here on earth, have you. Jesus was more concerned about His disciples teaching thee Good News of Jesus and what He has to offer.

GC Wrote:You started out this post calling me a douche, so I think you must believe it, guess this question's answer is left to you. Now to the nation of Israel, it's the same area the Jews lived in over 2000 years ago, it is the same peoples, they can trace their linage back to the days long before Christ. If this isn't clear as to the meaning then you'll have to excuse me.

tmm Wrote:Actually I highly doubt that anyone can trace the Lineage back that far – Considering several Libraries for example in Alexandria were burned down as well as others in Rome I am sure there would be problematic gaps in the sequence of History. E.g. ever notice that Jesus has two Geneologies.

Lineages are not always keep in libraries, most are keep in Bibles and other materials of the families. Yes Jesus has two genealogies, one is Mary's and the other Joseph's, something wrong with that.

GC Wrote:So what have I done to lead you to believe I'm badly tainted? I agree the church leaves a lot to be desired in some areas, we are people however and will make mistakes, why do you think we are indebted to Christ.

tmm Wrote:What have you done? You are on here being Antagonistic when I was a Christian all I met was people like you who thought they were right and everyone else was wrong.

I'm being antagonistic, why because I'm saying how I see Jesus. I know I do not know everything about Christ and Christianity, but I do know when there are teachings that go against the scriptures God has given us. So yes I will make a stand on the truth I know that comes from God.

tmm Wrote:Unless I conformed to your version of God I was condemned. Jesus both shown miracles and taught spiritualism. The fact that people now a day are told to have Blind faith when Jesus did not expect that from Thomas then it stands to reason that I should ask that you drink Poison to prove weather or not you are a true Christian.

Hold the horses here, it's not my version, it's because of what the scriptures say, the scripture most Christians accept as God's word of truth. To drink poison would be to test God and I'm not one who will try that, besides that was something told to the disciples not me.
You have ignored or just purposely gone around much I have stated and this is one of them, so how do you explain what Jesus said about the people in the future who come to believe in Him, "blessed are those who will believe by not seeing," doesn't that include you.

GC Wrote:I wasn't trying to use "olde English," but let me state it another way, only those who are seen as righteous to God will be in heaven, does that appease your ire. This applied to those before Christ also.

tmm Wrote:This makes more sense so stop misleading people with outlandish claims.

As I explained I was not trying to mislead anyone, I used poor grammar and it made it look that way, so again I'll say sorry.

GC Wrote:Then you need to show me some scripture that states that very thing. You really believe those angels still believe what they did was better than living with God for eternity, I doubt it. In the NT many of those fallen angels were afraid of Jesus and what He could do to them, they sound like they knew they screwed up. Sin, ie. evil blinds many, even many angels, is it any wonder that God hates sin so much.

tmm Wrote:Actually we cannot know why the Angels did what we did, We probably never will – The fact that God created Lucifer as perfect raises questions about whether Lucifer being evil was also Perfect in that God allowed his perfectness to become Imperfect? If God is perfect then were does imperfection come from.

Actually the angels didn't do what we did, we did what they did, their rebellion came before man's. Imperfection comes from sin, God was perfect in His will by not forcing Lucifer to obey Him, He wanted Lucifer's love to be unconditional, just as He wants ours to be.

GC Wrote:I'm not sure why you think this when the gospels are full of the reason Christ left heaven to become a sacrifice for mankind. Christ made it clear His death would bring forgiveness to those believed in Him. He said no one comes unto the Father except through Him. Christ said all that come to Him are called by the Father. Jesus told Thomas that he believed because he saw, then He said blessed are those who will believe by faith, not having Thomas kind of proof. So yes Christ life leads us to God the Father and His death brings us acceptance by God the Father. Without the forgiveness we would not be found righteous and the righteous will live with God for eternity.

tmm Wrote:The Synoptic Gospels there is only 3 of them lets cut the crap here – You are basing all your faith on what other people tell you to belive. You really should read more and search for truth. Read Gnostic Works / Read Apocrypha there is more teaching in those than there is in the Faulty Bible. Because at least Gnostic works have been left alone for 2,000 years so when we are reading them we are reading with largely non tampered documents.

What crap, you must be reading things into what I've written that are not there, this is the second time you've taken this attitude. No one has made me believe anything about God, God's revelations to me have shown me His truth. Others have taught me and I've examined what they have taught and found most to be reasonable and some not. How do you know those writings were not tampered with, do you have the originals, you do not even know for sure who wrote them and minds better than ours have decided which writings should be trusted and I believe it was through the leadership of the Holy Spirit.

GC Wrote:That's a great part of Christianity, trying to walk in Jesus footsteps. the verse says whosoever believes in Him, that must by necessity include His death and resurrection. We can't pick and choose the parts of Jesus life we want to believe, it's an all or nothing deal.

tmm Wrote:Actually I believe that God cannot die so Jesus did not die for our sins – I believe that someone else took his place and that he dwelled within the person until the last moment. Why else would he say ‘Father why have you forsaken me?’

Could be He really was the Son of God in the flesh.

tmm Wrote:One last comment: If the Kingdom of God is inside us then where is it?

I'm not sure what you are asking here but I'll take a stab a an answer. The Kingdom of God is the church and the church is those who put their faith in Christ, not just part of Him but the whole.
Again thanks for the conversation.

GC

(December 20, 2013 at 1:02 am)Godschild Wrote: Most criminals are not Christians before they go to prison, why do you think the churches have prison ministries. Do you think we want to save the saved. There as several polls but they are on the population after they are in prison. We are told in the NT that murderers, thieves, liars and ect. will not be in heaven. If one doesn't make it to heaven one is not a Christian.

GC

Again;

GC, if the polls are done after they are in prison, and uh... rather conveniently after conversion, because that's what you seem to be getting at, then what are you basing your seemingly bare assertion from?

Do you have data to back it up? How are you separating Christian-Criminals from in-prison converts? Furthermore, how do you know it's mostly non-Christians perpetrating these crimes and not Christians?

(December 20, 2013 at 4:33 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote:

(December 20, 2013 at 12:02 am)orangebox21 Wrote: Repent and believe the good news of Jesus Christ. I'm reminded of Matthew 22:23 The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him, 24 Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. 25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother: 26 Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh. 27 And last of all the woman died also. 28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her. 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Biblical morality strikes again. "Left his wife unto his brother" as if she were property being handed down in his will.

What is your standard for morality and why should a person follow your standard?

(December 23, 2013 at 12:19 am)orangebox21 Wrote: What is your standard for morality and why should a person follow your standard?

Reason, compassion, empathy and evidence. People should follow that standard because it conforms to the real world in which we live, and the people therein; their wellbeing is paramount.

Follow up questions: if you're claiming biblical morality, why don't you obey your god's instructions with regards to, say, slavery? And if you're saying you follow god's morality, were there actual reasons why he chose X things as good, and Y things as bad, that apply to the real world? Or is it all just a grab bag of the guy's opinions? If it's the latter, what use is morality at all? If it's the former, should not those real world reasons become apparent to anyone else as well, if your god is always correct?

Since I'm guilty of the OP, I should make my views known on the subject at some point.

I did not want to say anything when I posted the topic because I hoped to get people's opinions rather than a reaction to anything which I wrote.

The response from Christians has been underwhelming. There was one post which cited the rebirth of Israel after 2000 years supposedly fulfilling biblical prophecy as a reason for believing that the end times would occur at least within the poster's lifetime.

When I asked for a specific reference to the bible passage there was no response. I don't think there is any such prophecy, and I'm not being fussy about mentioning 2000 years. Israel was repeatedly conquered in ancient times, by the Assyrians, by the Egyptians, by the Babylonians and by the Macedonian Greek successors to Alexander. There are some texts in Isaiah (which was written by at least 3 different authors) suggesting a resurgence of Israel after a defeat, but nothing that would tie the words to the modern re-emergence of Israel as a nation.

As a skeptic my own views are that there are no end times in the sense of a final judgment of God, though it is just possible that we will destroy our own world by causing further climate change.

The question I am going to look at is how Christians came to believe in a final judgment.

The short answer is that they inherited the idea from the Jews in that era. Judaism in the 1st century BCE was rife with apocalyptic speculations about the end of the world, a time when God would finally punish the evildoers and reward the good people.

John the Baptist was an apocalyptic prophet foretelling the imminent end of the world: "Repent ... the axe is laid at the root of the tree."

So was Jesus. Quite simply he believed that the world would end within that generation. This was first realized by Albert Schweitzer way back in 1906. Today it is not the only view but it is certainly the dominant one among NT scholars who are not tied to a belief in biblical inerrancy.

It's right there in black and white in the bible for anyone to read.

Quote: For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom. (Matt 16:28, repeated in Mark 9 and Luke 9)

It is plainly about the final judgment, and Jesus asserts that it will happen while some of his audience are still living. C.S. Lewis called it the most embarrassing verse in the bible with good reason.

Another verse comes in as a close second, although Christians try to wiggle out of the obvious meaning. In Matthew 24 Jesus gives an apocalyptic discourse. He mentions the destruction of the Temple, but it is impossible to claim that the prophecy was fulfilled in 70 CE when the Romans destroyed the Temple, for he goes on to give signs of the end which have never happened "‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky." He rushes on to what is clearly supposed to be the end of the world.

Quote:Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

And when is this supposed to happen? Jesus plainly says:

Quote:Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. (Matt 24:30, repeated in Mark 13 & Luke 21))

Of course the traditional wiggle is to claim that here generation does not mean generation but race or nation, so it supposedly means that Israel will not disappear until all these things have happened.

It's a very feeble argument born of desperation. For one thing there is a different Greek word genos which is commonly used to mean race or nation. The Greek word genea used by Jesus means "generation" in the vast number of instances, that is, "the sum total of those born at the same time, expanded to include all those living at a given time" or "the time of a generation." These definitions are taken from Arndt-Gingrich, the definitive lexicon of NT Greek. Genea is used once, not in the NT but in Josephus, to mean the descendants of a common ancestor, a clan. However, Arndt-Gingrich definitely assigns the use in Matt 24 to the meaning generation, the people living at one time.

It makes no sense to say that genea means the nation of Israel. What is plainly demanded by the context is an indication of the time when this will happen, not to the day or hour, but approximately when. Saying that Israel will still exist as a nation says exactly nothing about when the end will come.

Other passages also indicate an end within Jesus' own generation.

The next one is a real shocker. Jesus sends out the 12 disciples to preach and heal and he tells them "Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes." (Matt 10:23) The coming of the Son of Man is the Last Judgment. NB I do not think the whole passage in Matthew 10 authentically reflects what Jesus said. Much of it seems to reflect a later time in the life of the church when "you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles." However, either way this is a problem for biblical inerrantists.

Finally, at the trial before the Sanhedrin Jesus tells the High Priest "you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right side of the Almighty and coming on the clouds of heaven!" (Matt 26:64) This is a prophecy of the end, and he says the High Priest standing before him will live to see it.

Jesus thought the end would come in his time. Paul thought the end would come in his time. Of course he is temporally close enough to Jesus that it would count as the same generation. In his earliest writing Paul assumes that he will be alive "on the day the Lord comes." (1 Thess 4:15)

So where do all these post-biblical prophecies of the end times come from. We could probably find one for virtually every decade of Christian history. Some notable ones are Tertullian and the Montanists ca 180 CE, the German Anabaptists at the time of the Reformation, William Miller and the Great Disappointment in the 1840s, the Jehovah's Witnesses in 1914, Hal Lindsay's apocalypse industry starting in the 1970s with ever-changing dates, Harold Camping in 2011, and so on.

I believe most of these people were sincere. They responded to the urgency of Jesus' preaching, and since they could not imagine that their divine savior had made such a colossal mistake, they transferred the urgency to their own times, and began to look for cock-eyed signs of the end. In this case, he who seeks will definitely find—every time.

(December 24, 2013 at 4:39 pm)xpastor Wrote: Since I'm guilty of the OP, I should make my views known on the subject at some point.

I did not want to say anything when I posted the topic because I hoped to get people's opinions rather than a reaction to anything which I wrote.

The response from Christians has been underwhelming. There was one post which cited the rebirth of Israel after 2000 years supposedly fulfilling biblical prophecy as a reason for believing that the end times would occur at least within the poster's lifetime.

When I asked for a specific reference to the bible passage there was no response. I don't think there is any such prophecy, and I'm not being fussy about mentioning 2000 years. Israel was repeatedly conquered in ancient times, by the Assyrians, by the Egyptians, by the Babylonians and by the Macedonian Greek successors to Alexander. There are some texts in Isaiah (which was written by at least 3 different authors) suggesting a resurgence of Israel after a defeat, but nothing that would tie the words to the modern re-emergence of Israel as a nation.

As a skeptic my own views are that there are no end times in the sense of a final judgment of God, though it is just possible that we will destroy our own world by causing further climate change.

The question I am going to look at is how Christians came to believe in a final judgment.

The short answer is that they inherited the idea from the Jews in that era. Judaism in the 1st century BCE was rife with apocalyptic speculations about the end of the world, a time when God would finally punish the evildoers and reward the good people.

John the Baptist was an apocalyptic prophet foretelling the imminent end of the world: "Repent ... the axe is laid at the root of the tree."

So was Jesus. Quite simply he believed that the world would end within that generation. This was first realized by Albert Schweitzer way back in 1906. Today it is not the only view but it is certainly the dominant one among NT scholars who are not tied to a belief in biblical inerrancy.

It's right there in black and white in the bible for anyone to read.

Quote: For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom. (Matt 16:28, repeated in Mark 9 and Luke 9)

It is plainly about the final judgment, and Jesus asserts that it will happen while some of his audience are still living. C.S. Lewis called it the most embarrassing verse in the bible with good reason.

Another verse comes in as a close second, although Christians try to wiggle out of the obvious meaning. In Matthew 24 Jesus gives an apocalyptic discourse. He mentions the destruction of the Temple, but it is impossible to claim that the prophecy was fulfilled in 70 CE when the Romans destroyed the Temple, for he goes on to give signs of the end which have never happened "‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky." He rushes on to what is clearly supposed to be the end of the world.

Quote:Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

And when is this supposed to happen? Jesus plainly says:

Quote:Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. (Matt 24:30, repeated in Mark 13 & Luke 21))

Of course the traditional wiggle is to claim that here generation does not mean generation but race or nation, so it supposedly means that Israel will not disappear until all these things have happened.

It's a very feeble argument born of desperation. For one thing there is a different Greek word genos which is commonly used to mean race or nation. The Greek word genea used by Jesus means "generation" in the vast number of instances, that is, "the sum total of those born at the same time, expanded to include all those living at a given time" or "the time of a generation." These definitions are taken from Arndt-Gingrich, the definitive lexicon of NT Greek. Genea is used once, not in the NT but in Josephus, to mean the descendants of a common ancestor, a clan. However, Arndt-Gingrich definitely assigns the use in Matt 24 to the meaning generation, the people living at one time.

It makes no sense to say that genea means the nation of Israel. What is plainly demanded by the context is an indication of the time when this will happen, not to the day or hour, but approximately when. Saying that Israel will still exist as a nation says exactly nothing about when the end will come.

Other passages also indicate an end within Jesus' own generation.

The next one is a real shocker. Jesus sends out the 12 disciples to preach and heal and he tells them "Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes." (Matt 10:23) The coming of the Son of Man is the Last Judgment. NB I do not think the whole passage in Matthew 10 authentically reflects what Jesus said. Much of it seems to reflect a later time in the life of the church when "you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles." However, either way this is a problem for biblical inerrantists.

Finally, at the trial before the Sanhedrin Jesus tells the High Priest "you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right side of the Almighty and coming on the clouds of heaven!" (Matt 26:64) This is a prophecy of the end, and he says the High Priest standing before him will live to see it.

Jesus thought the end would come in his time. Paul thought the end would come in his time. Of course he is temporally close enough to Jesus that it would count as the same generation. In his earliest writing Paul assumes that he will be alive "on the day the Lord comes." (1 Thess 4:15)

So where do all these post-biblical prophecies of the end times come from. We could probably find one for virtually every decade of Christian history. Some notable ones are Tertullian and the Montanists ca 180 CE, the German Anabaptists at the time of the Reformation, William Miller and the Great Disappointment in the 1840s, the Jehovah's Witnesses in 1914, Hal Lindsay's apocalypse industry starting in the 1970s with ever-changing dates, Harold Camping in 2011, and so on.

I believe most of these people were sincere. They responded to the urgency of Jesus' preaching, and since they could not imagine that their divine savior had made such a colossal mistake, they transferred the urgency to their own times, and began to look for cock-eyed signs of the end. In this case, he who seeks will definitely find—every time.

Your funny, you know nothing about scriptures, no wonder you're an xpastor I bet your church tossed you. I haven't the time to answer these absurd statements at this time I will after Christmas if I remember, time for God and family.