(January 7, 2014 at 12:43 pm)StoryBook Wrote: [quote='Godschild' pid='577907' dateline='1389063910']

No on said a person can kill all they want and go to heaven, contrary to what you think that's not how it is. Like I said you are confused about Christianity, it's terms and forgiveness. One who continually commits murder has not in reality repented of their sin, without repentance there is no forgiveness.

SB Wrote:Someone should tell god that.

You do know you're talking about an all knowing God.

GC Wrote:One who creates an entire universe would have no problem in creating a fetus that grows into a baby that grows into an adult. The Son has always been, God created a human body for Him to reside in, just like you reside in a body of flesh.
Here's an intelligent thought, scriptures say she was a virgin, since you seem to believe differently you need to show that God couldn't cause a virgin to become pregnant with a male child.

SB Wrote:Oh your god can do anything. Your the ones the assumes she is a virgin, when it doesn't say so.
So god raped Mary? He impregnated her against her free will.

Luke 1:26-38 Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city in Galilee, called Nazareth,
27) to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the descendants of David; and the virgins name was Mary.
28) And coming in, he said to her, "Hail favored one! The Lord is with you."
29) But she was greatly troubled at this statement, and kept pondering what kind of salutation this might be.
30) And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid Mary; for you have found favor with God.
31) "And behold, you will conceive in your womb, and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus.
32) "He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord will give Him the throne of His father David;
33) and He will reign over the House of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end."
34) and Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I'm a virgin?"
35) And the angel answered and said to her, " The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy offspring shall be called the Son of God.
36) "And behold, even your relative Elizabeth has conceived a son in her old age; and she who was called barren is now in her sixth month.
37) "For nothing will be impossible with God."
38) And Mary said, "Behold, the bondslave of the Lord; be it done to me according to your word." And the angel departed from her.

I researched the Greek parthenos for virgin in verse 27, it's defined as; of unknown, a maiden, an unmarried daughter, by implication-virgin. So the word is not directly used as virgin, however it implies virgin. See what a little research reveals. In verse 34 Mary says she's a virgin.
Your first sentence asking, can God do anything, that's answered in verse 37.
Your last question and sentence is answered in verse 38, where Mary says she will submit to God's will and does so freely.

GC Wrote:God created Adam a perfect human, it was Adams choice to reject God's authority and become a sinful creature. That was against God's will, God is not responsible for Adams fall. Why would God being omniscient cause Adam to sin, sin cost God his Son.

SB Wrote: how do you not see this. If god is all knowing then he would know Adam will sin. He made Adam and Jesus, but made Adam with "free will" to sin. He made Jesus not sin.

For someone who doesn't know squat about the scriptures you make yourself look foolish by laughing at my responses. You said you wanted to learn yet, you who knows nothing about the scriptures are trying to instruct the teacher, did you do this in school.
Of coarse He knew Adam would sin everyone knows this, that doesn't in anyway mean He made Adam to sin. He gives all free will to choose, Adam did not have to chose the sinful route, God didn't force him to. Jesus had all the weakness toward sin that all people have, He however chose not to sin, He did this just for you. The reason Jesus was the perfect sacrifice, He chose not to sin, there's no other way He could have become the perfect lamb to be sacrificed. Adam chose to bring sin into the world, this left Jesus no choice but to become human and suffer death a horrible one at that, just for you.

GC Wrote:

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Now why are you banging your head, you'll get a head ache doing that. I'm the one who has the understanding of scriptures, you said you were asking questions to learn, seems you would rather avoid leaning by acts such as, , , . Just because you do not understand scripture or agree with what I say, doesn't mean I'm talking in circles or abandoned reason.

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GC Wrote:

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Just as any student learns, I had guidance in studying scriptures. Some of the things I believe are not a part of the Southern Baptist Church, so yes I have come to some beliefs through the scriptures that my peers do not believe. When you decide to make fun of a subject instead of looking at it with some sort of honesty how is it you believe you are trying to learn. You've gone from asking questions about God and scripture to questioning what I know, that is not called learning, it's simply saying a person knows more than the teacher, Christ actually taught on this.

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GC Wrote:

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The truth of a life is God is just and knows what will be best for His creation and people. God doesn't intend hell to be a threat, it's a place of punishment, the punishment a person receives is of that persons choice and making. Just like the laws of the countries we live in, God's law (hell) is meant as a deterrent, not a threat. Those who see hell as a threat are scared but, they do not want to change, they want to live their life totally their way, it's like having your cake and eating it. You are a creation of God, you wouldn't be if He had not allowed it, so don't you think we owe our creator some type of respect?

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SB Wrote:I guess they are NOT perfect if they sin...

GC Wrote:God did not program man to sin, you are contradicting the terms you use. Programming a man to sin and giving Him free will to choose is an out right contradiction. Free will is not perfect nor imperfect, it is what it is, a freedom to choose. God is perfect, flawless in all things.

SB Wrote:Oh the irony.

This is what a person who has nothing intelligent to say says, seen it many times here, if you do not want to be positively active in this discussion then why do you continue?

(January 2, 2014 at 10:04 am)Godschild Wrote: People are not trying to translate the Bible into what they want people so see

SB Wrote:Like I said YOU are not making sense. I'm trying to learn what you think, but you keep contradicting yourself.

I do not believe I've contradicted myself, you need to show I have instead of just saying I have.

SB Wrote:You are telling me that there is one god, but you don't know that he is correct.

Correct there is only one God. However, I did not say I do not know He is correct, to the contrary God is perfect and I've said this to you, God is without fault, period.

SB Wrote:You say the book is written for everyone to understand, but you change your impression on it. Shouldn't everyone be able to agree 100%, not have different variations?

Yes the Bible is for those who choose to find understanding through it. I've not changed my mind about the scriptures and what they mean to mankind, I do see some things differently than those I go to church with, but these are minor, the scriptures from Genesis to Revelations are about Christ and the salvation He brought to man and, how we can have a part in that salvation. Because people want to be, let's say, self serving and not listen to God, make out of the Bible what they want, not what God intended. Just like many evolutionist look at the things of the past and come to different conclusions.

SB Wrote:

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You see I look at the world in a whole different "logic" then you. I SEE the world, without god, and can still find some comfort in it. I study animal behavior and have learned much about life through how they live. They do not worship a god, they live and die and just accept it. They seem to have more free will then we do. I try to find good in life and don't need some god or mistranslated old book to tell me what is right or wrong...

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GC Wrote:

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I understand you live by logic and it leaves no room for the Spiritual. I study animals myself, I raise and train Rottweilers and seen them do some really smart things. That would be smart for dogs, they are still far below humans and how our brains work. If you have ever trained a dog you would see that it is submissive to the one teaching it, it wants to please it's master. Being submissive doesn't mean they are some lowly thing to be looked down on, by no means, I have great respect for my dogs and their willingness to do things to please me, it's part of their nature and they are being true to that nature.
This is no different for humans, God created us less than He is, just like the dog is less than a human being. God has put it in man to be submissive, it's us who believe that submissiveness is a bad thing, when in reality it is part of a proper order. God wants and will teach us how to live a life that is pleasing to Him and we should be willing to submit and do so, He's the Master of the universe. You know who the greatest people are, those who have made it to the top. Do you know why they have made it to the top, because nothing is below them, they will do the most menial things to succeed. They see nothing that's to low for them to do to succeed, being a humble person has a lot going for it. This is what Christ meant when He told His disciples that "the least will be first and that the first will be last", He was saying live humbly and I will make you greater than those who believe they are great. Many non-believers here think that God was telling a wife she is lower than her husband because He says the wife is to be submissive to her husband. This couldn't be farther from the truth. God gave an order to the family and the man was given the position as head of the family and the wife was to submit to him, doesn't mean she is less than the husband, just like Christ is the head of the church and all Christians are to be submissive to Him. Christ said He was the groom(husband) and the church was the bride (Christians). So you see we can see God in the things He created if we'll just open our eyes to the truth.

GC

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SB Wrote:

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Oh I have "spirit", just don't believe in god(s). I believe we are all energy of different types.
Animals have BOTH dominant and/or submissive traits. I have been around many breeds of dogs and trained both dogs and horses. What makes us different is that humans developed the neocortex layer of the brain. There are many dogs, horses and animals in general that are dominant and don't listened to a thing you say. Dog were bred from wolves. Many wolf traits were bred out;also there were bred for different sizes of dogs now. That's why we have chihuahuas and great danes. Kinda reminds you of how evolution works.

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GC Wrote:I didn't say anything about having spirit, I was speaking of the Spiritual, a big difference. Please explain to me how we have different energies, I do not know of any scientific evidence for this.

SB Wrote:I said I believe. Also I you had scientific evidence would you really believe it?After all you are blind to evolution... You see very closed minded and one sided.Its odd that a magic birth and a human walking on water is more believable then evolution.

If the science was absolute. I'm not blind to evolution, it's never been proven, the closest they have come is natural selection which I agree with. What I do not agree with is natural selection leads to one specie changing into another, this has never been proven.
First thing God doesn't do magic, He controls nature for His will, the creator of the universe has that right because it belongs to Him, just as an artists painting, song or ect. belong to them.

SB Wrote:I might explain my crazy observation later, for now i guess you can think of it "like" Buddhism

I do not believe in Buddhism, Buddha is dead, my God lives on forever.

GC Wrote:Man was created with an advanced brain there was no need to develop it. Yes I have dogs who are dominate, but not to me and I've never seen a dog I can not train, I appeal to their nature of submissiveness, they all have it one needs to learn and use it to train with. You mean evolution works by something being manipulated by a superior being, strange I wasn't taught that, I thought evolution was a blind process. I mean how could it be anything but blind, evolution has no intelligence, no goal, just blind luck, that is if evolution were a real thing.

GC

SB Wrote:WOW, you see only what you want. Do you do this to things that are not in the bible?

I could say the same thing to you, many things are not in the Bible, I've accepted them because I see truth in them, it's those things science speculates about or just plain makes up I do not trust.

SB Wrote:I was comparing it to the fact that you can get different variations though genetics and genetic mutations( Chihuahua and great dane coming from a wolf ancestor). I'm really not going to teach the whole evolution thing. You have to look at it yourself because it is a lot to explain, and you have shown that you do not understand it

You do not need to teach the whole evolution thing there's no proof of it, natural selection is what you were speaking of and natural selection is not evolution, it's use as a scapegoat for evolutionary science because it is the closest thing to evolution they have seen. I have looked into it with scientist from different fields and none of them believe evolution is possible, these men have and do hold high positions in their field and are respected, if they were not they wouldn't have the jobs they do.

GC

Actually GC I do not think God can foresee, with absolute certainty, that Adam would sin. The future does not exist and thus no one, not even God can have knowledge of what does not exist. The whole point of free will is that it is free of external constrains. Adam's choice could not be fated. It was a possibility not yet actualized.

(January 8, 2014 at 3:18 am)Godschild Wrote: You do know you're talking about an all knowing God.

My point that god the would know that Adam will sin. He let it happen or made it happen. You see the flaw?

SB Wrote:Oh your god can do anything. Your the ones the assumes she is a virgin, when it doesn't say so.
So god raped Mary? He impregnated her against her free will.

GC Wrote:Luke 1:26-38 Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city in Galilee, called Nazareth,
27) to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the descendants of David; and the virgins name was Mary.
28) And coming in, he said to her, "Hail favored one! The Lord is with you."
29) But she was greatly troubled at this statement, and kept pondering what kind of salutation this might be.
30) And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid Mary; for you have found favor with God.
31) "And behold, you will conceive in your womb, and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus.
32) "He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord will give Him the throne of His father David;
33) and He will reign over the House of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end."
34) and Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I'm a virgin?"
35) And the angel answered and said to her, " The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy offspring shall be called the Son of God.
36) "And behold, even your relative Elizabeth has conceived a son in her old age; and she who was called barren is now in her sixth month.
37) "For nothing will be impossible with God."
38) And Mary said, "Behold, the bondslave of the Lord; be it done to me according to your word." And the angel departed from her.

I researched the Greek parthenos for virgin in verse 27, it's defined as; of unknown, a maiden, an unmarried daughter, by implication-virgin. So the word is not directly used as virgin, however it implies virgin. See what a little research reveals. In verse 34 Mary says she's a virgin.
Your first sentence asking, can God do anything, that's answered in verse 37.
Your last question and sentence is answered in verse 38, where Mary says she will submit to God's will and does so freely.

so she was raped and had no free will or choice
Could it be that she has not commenced her marriage yet. It was their idea of marriage to have sex with the one you are marrying first. Also maybe she wanted to conceive on the first try?

Ever play Chinese whispers as a kid?

SB Wrote: how do you not see this. If god is all knowing then he would know Adam will sin. He made Adam and Jesus, but made Adam with "free will" to sin. He made Jesus not sin.

GC Wrote:For someone who doesn't know squat about the scriptures you make yourself look foolish by laughing at my responses. You said you wanted to learn yet, you who knows nothing about the scriptures are trying to instruct the teacher, did you do this in school.
Of coarse He knew Adam would sin everyone knows this, that doesn't in anyway mean He made Adam to sin. He gives all free will to choose, Adam did not have to chose the sinful route, God didn't force him to. Jesus had all the weakness toward sin that all people have, He however chose not to sin, He did this just for you. The reason Jesus was the perfect sacrifice, He chose not to sin, there's no other way He could have become the perfect lamb to be sacrificed. Adam chose to bring sin into the world, this left Jesus no choice but to become human and suffer death a horrible one at that, just for you.

I'm not trying to instruct a "teacher", just trying to get you to see the contradictions. Its clear to me that you don't want me to learn. Every time I ask you a difficult, thought provoking question you either talk in circles around it or try to back out of the conversation. Its not my fault you are being closed minded nor is it completely yours. You are so used to seeing one side of the story and seem to be afraid to see the other.

GC Wrote:This is what a person who has nothing intelligent to say says, seen it many times here, if you do not want to be positively active in this discussion then why do you continue?

So you calling me dumb. Thanks, but I already knew that I don't mean to sound rude it just frustrates me that people don't understand my thinking. I see the world through my observations.

(January 2, 2014 at 10:04 am)Godschild Wrote: People are not trying to translate the Bible into what they want people so see

SB Wrote:Like I said YOU are not making sense. I'm trying to learn what you think, but you keep contradicting yourself.

GC Wrote:I do not believe I've contradicted myself, you need to show I have instead of just saying I have.

I just did

GC Wrote:Correct there is only one God. However, I did not say I do not know He is correct, to the contrary God is perfect and I've said this to you, God is without fault, period.

I meant that you don't know for sure that your god is real. There are other gods. Your god did not revile himself to everyone(if he is even real). Other cultures did not see your god.

If you grow up as a Muslim do you really think you would have the same god as you do now?

GC Wrote:Yes the Bible is for those who choose to find understanding through it. I've not changed my mind about the scriptures and what they mean to mankind, I do see some things differently than those I go to church with, but these are minor, the scriptures from Genesis to Revelations are about Christ and the salvation He brought to man and, how we can have a part in that salvation. Because people want to be, let's say, self serving and not listen to God, make out of the Bible what they want, not what God intended. Just like many evolutionist look at the things of the past and come to different conclusions.

Which brings me back to why didn't make it so everyone could understand the Holy Bible?

GC Wrote:If the science was absolute. I'm not blind to evolution, it's never been proven, the closest they have come is natural selection which I agree with. What I do not agree with is natural selection leads to one specie changing into another, this has never been proven.
First thing God doesn't do magic, He controls nature for His will, the creator of the universe has that right because it belongs to Him, just as an artists painting, song or ect. belong to them.

The bible has never been proven...
So you don't believe in genetic mutation? So you don't believe dinosaurs, mammoths, Mesohippus(before a horse was a horse) or that dogs came from wolves? So you don't believe in deceases the mutated from animal only to being both animal and human?

Wow that is closed minded.

GC Wrote:I do not believe in Buddhism, Buddha is dead, my God lives on forever.

Of course Buddha is dead, he was human. He didn't claim to be god or a part of god, like Jesus did. Buddhism is more of a life style, not a religion.

GC Wrote:You do not need to teach the whole evolution thing there's no proof of it, natural selection is what you were speaking of and natural selection is not evolution, it's use as a scapegoat for evolutionary science because it is the closest thing to evolution they have seen. I have looked into it with scientist from different fields and none of them believe evolution is possible, these men have and do hold high positions in their field and are respected, if they were not they wouldn't have the jobs they do.

GC

Ironically the same can be said about the bible
Try looking with an open mind and truly looking at the other side of things. I would like to see some proof that these people you speak of do not believe in what they research.

(January 8, 2014 at 3:18 am)Godschild Wrote:

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You do know you're talking about an all knowing God.

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Quote: My point that god the would know that Adam will sin. He let it happen or made it happen. You see the flaw?

No, there is no flaw God is flawless. God did not make it happen, why would He bring troubles on Himself?

SB Wrote:Oh your god can do anything. Your the ones the assumes she is a virgin, when it doesn't say so.
So god raped Mary? He impregnated her against her free will.

GC Wrote:Luke 1:26-38 Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city in Galilee, called Nazareth,
27) to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the descendants of David; and the virgins name was Mary.
28) And coming in, he said to her, "Hail favored one! The Lord is with you."
29) But she was greatly troubled at this statement, and kept pondering what kind of salutation this might be.
30) And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid Mary; for you have found favor with God.
31) "And behold, you will conceive in your womb, and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus.
32) "He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord will give Him the throne of His father David;
33) and He will reign over the House of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end."
34) and Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I'm a virgin?"
35) And the angel answered and said to her, " The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy offspring shall be called the Son of God.
36) "And behold, even your relative Elizabeth has conceived a son in her old age; and she who was called barren is now in her sixth month.
37) "For nothing will be impossible with God."
38) And Mary said, "Behold, the bondslave of the Lord; be it done to me according to your word." And the angel departed from her.

I researched the Greek parthenos for virgin in verse 27, it's defined as; of unknown, a maiden, an unmarried daughter, by implication-virgin. So the word is not directly used as virgin, however it implies virgin. See what a little research reveals. In verse 34 Mary says she's a virgin.
Your first sentence asking, can God do anything, that's answered in verse 37.
Your last question and sentence is answered in verse 38, where Mary says she will submit to God's will and does so freely.

Quote:so she was raped and had no free will or choice
Could it be that she has not commenced her marriage yet. It was their idea of marriage to have sex with the one you are marrying first. Also maybe she wanted to conceive on the first try?

Ever play Chinese whispers as a kid?

That's not what she meant, like I said parthenos though not actually use to say virgin always imparts that meaning. You are trying to twist the word into what you want it to mean without taking into account the truth of it's meaning. You're being dishonest in your attempt to run down scriptures.

SB Wrote: how do you not see this. If god is all knowing then he would know Adam will sin. He made Adam and Jesus, but made Adam with "free will" to sin. He made Jesus not sin.

GC Wrote:For someone who doesn't know squat about the scriptures you make yourself look foolish by laughing at my responses. You said you wanted to learn yet, you who knows nothing about the scriptures are trying to instruct the teacher, did you do this in school.
Of coarse He knew Adam would sin everyone knows this, that doesn't in anyway mean He made Adam to sin. He gives all free will to choose, Adam did not have to chose the sinful route, God didn't force him to. Jesus had all the weakness toward sin that all people have, He however chose not to sin, He did this just for you. The reason Jesus was the perfect sacrifice, He chose not to sin, there's no other way He could have become the perfect lamb to be sacrificed. Adam chose to bring sin into the world, this left Jesus no choice but to become human and suffer death a horrible one at that, just for you.

Quote:I'm not trying to instruct a "teacher", just trying to get you to see the contradictions.

What contradictions, you need to name them, bring the evidence of the contradiction.

Quote:Its clear to me that you don't want me to learn. Every time I ask you a difficult, thought provoking question you either talk in circles around it or try to back out of the conversation.

You must be kidding. I've engaged in every question you have presented and given answers to them, straight answers. It's actually you who are not answering questions posed to you, why I do not know unless you are afraid they might get you to start thinking.

Quote:Its not my fault you are being closed minded nor is it completely yours. You are so used to seeing one side of the story and seem to be afraid to see the other.

I've looked at both sides, I study with an open mind and will ask God why do certain things in scripture seem to be contradictory or out of character, I continue to study until I receive the answers. That's exactly why my view of hell is different from those in my church. I saw what I considered contradictions about hell, so I began to study it closer and come to an understanding that has no contradictions, it seems to address all the statements made about hell in scripture. Am I right only time well reveal that. So you see I'm far more opened minded than you would believe, you believe I'm closed minded because you're right and I'm wrong, I see that as closed minded. You also believe I'm closed minded because I stick with what I believe, why should I abandon what I know is right, especially since you have not given any solid proof I'm wrong.

GC Wrote:This is what a person who has nothing intelligent to say says, seen it many times here, if you do not want to be positively active in this discussion then why do you continue?

Quote:So you calling me dumb. Thanks, but I already knew that I don't mean to sound rude it just frustrates me that people don't understand my thinking. I see the world through my observations.

I didn't say you were dumb, I said you seem not to have anything of intellectual use to give. I understand your thinking, you need to see actual proof before you will believe in anything. I see the world through my observations also, the difference is I've learned to observe through God's eyes and why not, He is the Creator after all. Don't you think I feel the same way, I know for a fact God is real, and that He is who He says He is, but so many want listen, they would rather make fun of what I know. I'll say to you what I've said to many here and it's an undeniable truth, death will bring the truth to everyone or no one. Those are the only two options, it's all or nothing.

(January 2, 2014 at 10:04 am)Godschild Wrote: People are not trying to translate the Bible into what they want people to see

SB Wrote:Like I said YOU are not making sense. I'm trying to learn what you think, but you keep contradicting yourself.

GC Wrote:I do not believe I've contradicted myself, you need to show I have instead of just saying I have.

Quote:I just did

You did where I see no contradictions named let lone proven.

GC Wrote:Correct there is only one God. However, I did not say I do not know He is correct, to the contrary God is perfect and I've said this to you, God is without fault, period.

Quote:I meant that you don't know for sure that your god is real. There are other gods. Your god did not revile himself to everyone(if he is even real). Other cultures did not see your god.

I'm saying I do know for sure, no doubts, absolutely sure. There are no other gods, if there were why haven't they come to me wanting me as their child. Everyone can come to know God now, that's one of the purposes of Christ. In the past most cultures abandoned God and chased after stone and wooden idols as their gods, even the Israelites. God chose to make them His people through Abraham to bring a knowledge of Him to the world again, God worked through history to reveal Himself in Christ.

Quote:If you grow up as a Muslim do you really think you would have the same god as you do now?

Can't answer that I do not know if I would have responded to God's call. Like I say to others I do not live my life on speculation, I prefer to live with what I've been given. Life's to difficult and trying to speculate on what might have been just seems to be a waste, moving on with what I have is my way of living my life.

GC Wrote:Yes the Bible is for those who choose to find understanding through it. I've not changed my mind about the scriptures and what they mean to mankind, I do see some things differently than those I go to church with, but these are minor, the scriptures from Genesis to Revelations are about Christ and the salvation He brought to man and, how we can have a part in that salvation. Because people want to be, let's say, self serving and not listen to God, make out of the Bible what they want, not what God intended. Just like many evolutionist look at the things of the past and come to different conclusions.

Quote:Which brings me back to why didn't make it so everyone could understand the Holy Bible?

He did as long as you are looking for the truth, this is a submissive thing God asks us to do and when we do we will profit from it.

GC Wrote:If the science was absolute. I'm not blind to evolution, it's never been proven, the closest they have come is natural selection which I agree with. What I do not agree with is natural selection leads to one specie changing into another, this has never been proven.
First thing God doesn't do magic, He controls nature for His will, the creator of the universe has that right because it belongs to Him, just as an artists painting, song or ect. belong to them.

Quote:The bible has never been proven...

Much in the scriptures have been proven, those who do not want the scripture to reveal truth will tell you anything to discount it's truth.

Quote:So you don't believe in genetic mutation? So you don't believe dinosaurs, mammoths,

Genetic mutations have been shown to be detrimental to a species and eventually the specie dies out or the mutation doesn't survive. Yes I believe there were those animals and many more, the fossils show us they existed.

Quote: Mesohippus(before a horse was a horse) or that dogs came from wolves? So you don't believe in deceases the mutated from animal only to being both animal and human?

Wow that is closed minded.

I believe that Mesohippus existed, I do not believe the horse evolved from it.
Why would I not believe that domestic dogs came from wolves, their both canine and can interbreed. I can see that a disease can modify to inhabit a human, it doesn't change the disease though still the same thing.
You keep telling me what I believe and then call me closed minded, to me that's desperation, no one has ever proven that one specie can change into something totally different.

GC Wrote:I do not believe in Buddhism, Buddha is dead, my God lives on forever.

Quote:Of course Buddha is dead, he was human. He didn't claim to be god or a part of god, like Jesus did. Buddhism is more of a life style, not a religion.

You say it's not a religion, there are millions in the world that would disagree with you. Exactly why should I want to live a life that a dead man believed to be the true way. Jesus is alive and because He is I have no reason to doubt Him.

GC Wrote:You do not need to teach the whole evolution thing there's no proof of it, natural selection is what you were speaking of and natural selection is not evolution, it's use as a scapegoat for evolutionary science because it is the closest thing to evolution they have seen. I have looked into it with scientist from different fields and none of them believe evolution is possible, these men have and do hold high positions in their field and are respected, if they were not they wouldn't have the jobs they do.

GC

Quote:Ironically the same can be said about the bible
Try looking with an open mind and truly looking at the other side of things. I would like to see some proof that these people you speak of do not believe in what they research.

These people I mentioned are off limits, I've made this known before, it wouldn't be right for me to do so.
The Bible comes from the living God, evolution is dependent on fossils and wild imaginations.

GC

(January 8, 2014 at 6:06 pm)Godschild Wrote: You're being dishonest in your attempt to run down scriptures.

No, I'm not being dishonest, if I am you are too. I am making my own conclusion base on what I read and not what you want me to think.
You said god made to understand yet we still are reading it differently.

GC Wrote:why I do not know unless you are afraid they might get you to start thinking.

I AM thinking, that is why I have so many questions and thoughts.

Quote:I've looked at both sides, I study with an open mind and will ask God why do certain things in scripture seem to be contradictory or out of character, I continue to study until I receive the answers.

Your only asking god, and others in the same religion? How is that not one sided?
... see next quote

Quote:you believe I'm closed minded because you're right and I'm wrong, I see that as closed minded. You also believe I'm closed minded because I stick with what I believe, why should I abandon what I know is right, especially since you have not given any solid proof I'm wrong.

I'm Agnostic, so I am looking at both sides to try and find an answer that makes since.

Please re read what you said. It confuses me to think YOU are right and I'M wrong...

GC Wrote:I didn't say you were dumb, I said you seem not to have anything of intellectual use to give. I understand your thinking, you need to see actual proof before you will believe in anything. I see the world through my observations also, the difference is I've learned to observe through God's eyes and why not, He is the Creator after all.

Your god? You can't see the world if you have blinders on

GC Wrote:Don't you think I feel the same way, I know for a fact God is real, and that He is who He says He is, but so many want listen, they would rather make fun of what I know. I'll say to you what I've said to many here and it's an undeniable truth, death will bring the truth to everyone or no one. Those are the only two options, it's all or nothing.

GC Wrote:I'm saying I do know for sure, no doubts, absolutely sure. There are no other gods, if there were why haven't they come to me wanting me as their child. Everyone can come to know God now, that's one of the purposes of Christ. In the past most cultures abandoned God and chased after stone and wooden idols as their gods, even the Israelites. God chose to make them His people through Abraham to bring a knowledge of Him to the world again, God worked through history to reveal Himself in Christ.

Now I am intrigued, how has god shown you his existence? Can you give a few examples, please?

See my grandparents are Christian/Catholic. I have been to church, but have not been shown of gods existence.

Quote:Of course Buddha is dead, he was human. He didn't claim to be god or a part of god, like Jesus did. Buddhism is more of a life style, not a religion.

(January 8, 2014 at 6:06 pm)Godschild Wrote: You say it's not a religion, there are millions in the world that would disagree with you. Exactly why should I want to live a life that a dead man believed to be the true way. Jesus is alive and because He is I have no reason to doubt Him.

It is a philosophy
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/5minbud.htm

Maybe you should open up your mind to the fact that people lived life before Jesus. That your god didn't "guide" people till some random day.

Do you think Siddhartha Gotama went to hell because he didn't believe in god? That would not be fair because god didn't show him self till centuries later.

What? Jesus is alive, I thought people killed him? How can he be so old? I don't understand where is he hiding? I did here something about Jesus being in Japan, it is said he died there to. I want to meet him. I hope its the real one and not an imposter. Why hasn't cleared up all this confusion yet?

(January 8, 2014 at 11:33 am)ChadWooters Wrote: Actually GC I do not think God can foresee, with absolute certainty, that Adam would sin. The future does not exist and thus no one, not even God can have knowledge of what does not exist. The whole point of free will is that it is free of external constrains. Adam's choice could not be fated. It was a possibility not yet actualized.

Which would make a good deal of sense, given the number of times god is surprised by stuff, or has to ask people questions, in the bible. The other alternative is a kind of Doctor Manhattan-style predetermination thing, where everything, even god acting surprised at things he knows will happen, is written, and he's just playing his part the same as anyone else, just with foreknowledge.

(January 8, 2014 at 11:33 am)ChadWooters Wrote: Actually GC I do not think God can foresee, with absolute certainty, that Adam would sin. The future does not exist and thus no one, not even God can have knowledge of what does not exist. The whole point of free will is that it is free of external constrains. Adam's choice could not be fated. It was a possibility not yet actualized.

Then are the prophecies God guessing about future events.

GC

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(January 8, 2014 at 6:06 pm)Godschild Wrote: You're being dishonest in your attempt to run down scriptures.

Quote:No, I'm not being dishonest, if I am you are too. I am making my own conclusion base on what I read and not what you want me to think.
You said god made to understand yet we still are reading it differently.

Yet you call me closed minded because I see evolution differently than you do. I base my conclusion on evolution by what I read, not what you want me to believe.

GC Wrote:why I do not know unless you are afraid they might get you to start thinking.

Quote:I AM thinking, that is why I have so many questions and thoughts.

No you're rejecting every thing I've shown you, this is why you have so many questions, just to be honest I'm not clear on why you're asking are you?

GC Wrote:I've looked at both sides, I study with an open mind and will ask God why do certain things in scripture seem to be contradictory or out of character, I continue to study until I receive the answers.

Quote:Your only asking god, and others in the same religion? How is that not one sided?
... see next quote

Do you ask questions of scientist who disagree with evolution, do you ever question the theory of evolution or do you just accept what you're told, and you question me about being one sided.

GC Wrote:you believe I'm closed minded because you're right and I'm wrong, I see that as closed minded. You also believe I'm closed minded because I stick with what I believe, why should I abandon what I know is right, especially since you have not given any solid proof I'm wrong.

Quote:I'm Agnostic, so I am looking at both sides to try and find an answer that makes since.

Then please explain how you are honestly looking at both sides, when you reject every thing shown to you about God. How can you find the answers going the rejection route.

Quote:Please re read what you said. It confuses me to think YOU are right and I'M wrong...

Reread what?

GC Wrote:I didn't say you were dumb, I said you seem not to have anything of intellectual use to give. I understand your thinking, you need to see actual proof before you will believe in anything. I see the world through my observations also, the difference is I've learned to observe through God's eyes and why not, He is the Creator after all.

Quote:Your god? You can't see the world if you have blinders on

Blinders, how so, like I said I look at things through God's eyes.

GC Wrote:Don't you think I feel the same way, I know for a fact God is real, and that He is who He says He is, but so many want listen, they would rather make fun of what I know. I'll say to you what I've said to many here and it's an undeniable truth, death will bring the truth to everyone or no one. Those are the only two options, it's all or nothing.

GC Wrote:I'm saying I do know for sure, no doubts, absolutely sure. There are no other gods, if there were why haven't they come to me wanting me as their child. Everyone can come to know God now, that's one of the purposes of Christ. In the past most cultures abandoned God and chased after stone and wooden idols as their gods, even the Israelites. God chose to make them His people through Abraham to bring a knowledge of Him to the world again, God worked through history to reveal Himself in Christ.

Quote:Now I am intrigued, how has god shown you his existence? Can you give a few examples, please?

By the relationship I have with Him, He has shown me many things over the years, like I said before answers to questions about His word that wasn't making sense to me. He completely changed my life, from a person who cared only for himself, a heavy drinker who enjoyed drinking, a user of drugs who enjoyed using them, into someone who enjoys helping others, giving of my time to serve others through teaching and leadership, I could have never done these things on my own, I use to get scared talking in front of a lot of people, now I'm completely comfortable with it. God promised to supply for me and He has, He's brought people to me to help with problems or just be a comfort to. God has made things in my life possible that I could never have on my own. I've asked very specific answers from God and have received answers in the most untimely places.

Quote:See my grandparents are Christian/Catholic. I have been to church, but have not been shown of gods existence.

I know how the Catholic Church can be, my wife use to be Catholic. Being Catholic seems to be more important than actually being a Christian. Ritual seems to be what drives most Catholics, please don't misunderstand I believe many Catholics are Christians, what I do not believe, is that for the most part the Catholic hierarchy cares about the salvation Christ brought to the world, the ritual part of the religion is more important to them, they go against some of the most basic teachings of the Bible, the Bible is our instruction book and shouldn't be ignored.

GC

(January 9, 2014 at 5:44 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(January 8, 2014 at 11:33 am)ChadWooters Wrote: Actually GC I do not think God can foresee, with absolute certainty, that Adam would sin. The future does not exist and thus no one, not even God can have knowledge of what does not exist. The whole point of free will is that it is free of external constrains. Adam's choice could not be fated. It was a possibility not yet actualized.

Then are the prophecies God guessing about future events.

GC

---

(January 8, 2014 at 6:06 pm)Godschild Wrote: You're being dishonest in your attempt to run down scriptures.

Quote:No, I'm not being dishonest, if I am you are too. I am making my own conclusion base on what I read and not what you want me to think.
You said god made to understand yet we still are reading it differently.

Yet you call me closed minded because I see evolution differently than you do. I base my conclusion on evolution by what I read, not what you want me to believe.

GC Wrote:why I do not know unless you are afraid they might get you to start thinking.

Quote:I AM thinking, that is why I have so many questions and thoughts.

No you're rejecting every thing I've shown you, this is why you have so many questions, just to be honest I'm not clear on why you're asking are you?

GC Wrote:I've looked at both sides, I study with an open mind and will ask God why do certain things in scripture seem to be contradictory or out of character, I continue to study until I receive the answers.

Quote:Your only asking god, and others in the same religion? How is that not one sided?
... see next quote

Do you ask questions of scientist who disagree with evolution, do you ever question the theory of evolution or do you just accept what you're told, and you question me about being one sided.

GC Wrote:you believe I'm closed minded because you're right and I'm wrong, I see that as closed minded. You also believe I'm closed minded because I stick with what I believe, why should I abandon what I know is right, especially since you have not given any solid proof I'm wrong.

Quote:I'm Agnostic, so I am looking at both sides to try and find an answer that makes since.

Then please explain how you are honestly looking at both sides, when you reject every thing shown to you about God. How can you find the answers going the rejection route.

Quote:Please re read what you said. It confuses me to think YOU are right and I'M wrong...

Reread what?

GC Wrote:I didn't say you were dumb, I said you seem not to have anything of intellectual use to give. I understand your thinking, you need to see actual proof before you will believe in anything. I see the world through my observations also, the difference is I've learned to observe through God's eyes and why not, He is the Creator after all.

Quote:Your god? You can't see the world if you have blinders on

Blinders, how so, like I said I look at things through God's eyes.

GC Wrote:Don't you think I feel the same way, I know for a fact God is real, and that He is who He says He is, but so many want listen, they would rather make fun of what I know. I'll say to you what I've said to many here and it's an undeniable truth, death will bring the truth to everyone or no one. Those are the only two options, it's all or nothing.

GC Wrote:I'm saying I do know for sure, no doubts, absolutely sure. There are no other gods, if there were why haven't they come to me wanting me as their child. Everyone can come to know God now, that's one of the purposes of Christ. In the past most cultures abandoned God and chased after stone and wooden idols as their gods, even the Israelites. God chose to make them His people through Abraham to bring a knowledge of Him to the world again, God worked through history to reveal Himself in Christ.

Quote:Now I am intrigued, how has god shown you his existence? Can you give a few examples, please?

By the relationship I have with Him, He has shown me many things over the years, like I said before answers to questions about His word that wasn't making sense to me. He completely changed my life, from a person who cared only for himself, a heavy drinker who enjoyed drinking, a user of drugs who enjoyed using them, into someone who enjoys helping others, giving of my time to serve others through teaching and leadership, I could have never done these things on my own, I use to get scared talking in front of a lot of people, now I'm completely comfortable with it. God promised to supply for me and He has, He's brought people to me to help with problems or just be a comfort to. God has made things in my life possible that I could never have on my own. I've asked very specific answers from God and have received answers in the most untimely places.

Quote:See my grandparents are Christian/Catholic. I have been to church, but have not been shown of gods existence.

I know how the Catholic Church can be, my wife use to be Catholic. Being Catholic seems to be more important than actually being a Christian. Ritual seems to be what drives most Catholics, please don't misunderstand I believe many Catholics are Christians, what I do not believe, is that for the most part the Catholic hierarchy cares about the salvation Christ brought to the world, the ritual part of the religion is more important to them, they go against some of the most basic teachings of the Bible, the Bible is our instruction book and shouldn't be ignored.

GC

Ok, excuse me if I sound rude. I don’t mean to be, just trying to make things straight.

1. You say god, knows all and made it so everyone could understand his word. I find it very hard to understand that. How come no one can agree on the same thing? Why are their different ideas on what god ment?
I’m not trying to say you are wrong, just that you are not adding up…

2. I’m not calling you closed minded because you evolution different. I’ calling you closed minded because you claim to see through gods eyes, like god. Yet you are only seeing what you think he wants you to see, that’s closed minded. You are automatically assuming that because it is not in your book that there is not possibility of it, which is closed minded.

3. I do question things in evolution, BUT I do see truth in it. I do believe we have evolved from single cells, just look at pregnancy. See you have conditioned yourself to not question god but who created god? How did he become to be? There will always be questions to our excitants, not even you can delude yourself to know the reason to life or how it really came to be.

4. So science makes a little more sense to me than a 2000+ year old book that was writer centuries after you supposed creation. Science keeps discovering and researching new things, but you book stays with its misinterpreted stories. I can see things in science, but have yet to see a man walk on water.

5. I’m not rejecting as you say, I’m questing. What you say brings more questions to my head. Sorry if you make you think…

6. Honestly, drinking and drugs are pretty generic things. Many people stop without go. Can you elaborate more on how god helped you overcome that? How did he send people to help you?

7.

Quote:I know how the Catholic Church can be, my wife use to be Catholic. Being Catholic seems to be more important than actually being a Christian. Ritual seems to be what drives most Catholics, please don't misunderstand I believe many Catholics are Christians, what I do not believe, is that for the most part the Catholic hierarchy cares about the salvation Christ brought to the world, the ritual part of the religion is more important to them, they go against some of the most basic teachings of the Bible, the Bible is our instruction book and shouldn't be ignored.
GC

So you think that your way of understanding the bible is the only right way? I’m confused as to how you know that they are doing “wrong”? Does that mean they will go to hell?

GC Wrote:you believe I'm closed minded because you're right and I'm wrong, I see that as closed minded. You also believe I'm closed minded because I stick with what I believe, why should I abandon what I know is right, especially since you have not given any solid proof I'm wrong.

SB Wrote:Please re read what you said. It confuses me to think YOU are right and I'M wrong...

GC Wrote:Reread what?

the bolded…


8. I find it sad and scary to worship someone that tells people to murder, promotes rape, promotes slavery, and deceives. He also gives threatening ultimatums. This is what I have learned and observed/ figured out

@GC, it depends on how the prophecy is presented. Some of God's prophecies have a "repent or else" format. In other cases fulfilment of the prophecy comes from a direct act of God's power apart from human choice. In effect God can make things happen too.