Why would God?

[Godscreated]

[Neo-Scholastic]

Actually GC I do not think God can foresee, with absolute certainty, that Adam would sin. The future does not exist and thus no one, not even God can have knowledge of what does not exist. The whole point of free will is that it is free of external constrains. Adam's choice could not be fated. It was a possibility not yet actualized.

[StoryBook]

You do know you're talking about an all knowing God.

My point that god the would know that Adam will sin. He let it happen or made it happen. You see the flaw?

Oh your god can do anything. Your the ones the assumes she is a virgin, when it doesn't say so.
So god raped Mary? He impregnated her against her free will.

Luke 1:26-38 Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city in Galilee, called Nazareth,
27) to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the descendants of David; and the virgins name was Mary.
28) And coming in, he said to her, "Hail favored one! The Lord is with you."
29) But she was greatly troubled at this statement, and kept pondering what kind of salutation this might be.
30) And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid Mary; for you have found favor with God.
31) "And behold, you will conceive in your womb, and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus.
32) "He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord will give Him the throne of His father David;
33) and He will reign over the House of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end."
34) and Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I'm a virgin?"
35) And the angel answered and said to her, " The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy offspring shall be called the Son of God.
36) "And behold, even your relative Elizabeth has conceived a son in her old age; and she who was called barren is now in her sixth month.
37) "For nothing will be impossible with God."
38) And Mary said, "Behold, the bondslave of the Lord; be it done to me according to your word." And the angel departed from her.

I researched the Greek parthenos for virgin in verse 27, it's defined as; of unknown, a maiden, an unmarried daughter, by implication-virgin. So the word is not directly used as virgin, however it implies virgin. See what a little research reveals. In verse 34 Mary says she's a virgin.
Your first sentence asking, can God do anything, that's answered in verse 37.
Your last question and sentence is answered in verse 38, where Mary says she will submit to God's will and does so freely.

so she was raped and had no free will or choice
Could it be that she has not commenced her marriage yet. It was their idea of marriage to have sex with the one you are marrying first. Also maybe she wanted to conceive on the first try?

Ever play Chinese whispers as a kid?

how do you not see this. If god is all knowing then he would know Adam will sin. He made Adam and Jesus, but made Adam with "free will" to sin. He made Jesus not sin.

For someone who doesn't know squat about the scriptures you make yourself look foolish by laughing at my responses. You said you wanted to learn yet, you who knows nothing about the scriptures are trying to instruct the teacher, did you do this in school.
Of coarse He knew Adam would sin everyone knows this, that doesn't in anyway mean He made Adam to sin. He gives all free will to choose, Adam did not have to chose the sinful route, God didn't force him to. Jesus had all the weakness toward sin that all people have, He however chose not to sin, He did this just for you. The reason Jesus was the perfect sacrifice, He chose not to sin, there's no other way He could have become the perfect lamb to be sacrificed. Adam chose to bring sin into the world, this left Jesus no choice but to become human and suffer death a horrible one at that, just for you.

I'm not trying to instruct a "teacher", just trying to get you to see the contradictions. Its clear to me that you don't want me to learn. Every time I ask you a difficult, thought provoking question you either talk in circles around it or try to back out of the conversation. Its not my fault you are being closed minded nor is it completely yours. You are so used to seeing one side of the story and seem to be afraid to see the other.

This is what a person who has nothing intelligent to say says, seen it many times here, if you do not want to be positively active in this discussion then why do you continue?

So you calling me dumb. Thanks, but I already knew that I don't mean to sound rude it just frustrates me that people don't understand my thinking. I see the world through my observations.

People are not trying to translate the Bible into what they want people so see

Like I said YOU are not making sense. I'm trying to learn what you think, but you keep contradicting yourself.

I do not believe I've contradicted myself, you need to show I have instead of just saying I have.

I just did

Correct there is only one God. However, I did not say I do not know He is correct, to the contrary God is perfect and I've said this to you, God is without fault, period.

I meant that you don't know for sure that your god is real. There are other gods. Your god did not revile himself to everyone(if he is even real). Other cultures did not see your god.

If you grow up as a Muslim do you really think you would have the same god as you do now?

Yes the Bible is for those who choose to find understanding through it. I've not changed my mind about the scriptures and what they mean to mankind, I do see some things differently than those I go to church with, but these are minor, the scriptures from Genesis to Revelations are about Christ and the salvation He brought to man and, how we can have a part in that salvation. Because people want to be, let's say, self serving and not listen to God, make out of the Bible what they want, not what God intended. Just like many evolutionist look at the things of the past and come to different conclusions.

Which brings me back to why didn't make it so everyone could understand the Holy Bible?

If the science was absolute. I'm not blind to evolution, it's never been proven, the closest they have come is natural selection which I agree with. What I do not agree with is natural selection leads to one specie changing into another, this has never been proven.
First thing God doesn't do magic, He controls nature for His will, the creator of the universe has that right because it belongs to Him, just as an artists painting, song or ect. belong to them.

The bible has never been proven...
So you don't believe in genetic mutation? So you don't believe dinosaurs, mammoths, Mesohippus(before a horse was a horse) or that dogs came from wolves? So you don't believe in deceases the mutated from animal only to being both animal and human?

Wow that is closed minded.

I do not believe in Buddhism, Buddha is dead, my God lives on forever.

Of course Buddha is dead, he was human. He didn't claim to be god or a part of god, like Jesus did. Buddhism is more of a life style, not a religion.

You do not need to teach the whole evolution thing there's no proof of it, natural selection is what you were speaking of and natural selection is not evolution, it's use as a scapegoat for evolutionary science because it is the closest thing to evolution they have seen. I have looked into it with scientist from different fields and none of them believe evolution is possible, these men have and do hold high positions in their field and are respected, if they were not they wouldn't have the jobs they do.

GC

Ironically the same can be said about the bible
Try looking with an open mind and truly looking at the other side of things. I would like to see some proof that these people you speak of do not believe in what they research.

[Godscreated]

[StoryBook]

You're being dishonest in your attempt to run down scriptures.

No, I'm not being dishonest, if I am you are too. I am making my own conclusion base on what I read and not what you want me to think.
You said god made to understand yet we still are reading it differently.

why I do not know unless you are afraid they might get you to start thinking.

I AM thinking, that is why I have so many questions and thoughts.

I've looked at both sides, I study with an open mind and will ask God why do certain things in scripture seem to be contradictory or out of character, I continue to study until I receive the answers.

Your only asking god, and others in the same religion? How is that not one sided?
... see next quote

you believe I'm closed minded because you're right and I'm wrong, I see that as closed minded. You also believe I'm closed minded because I stick with what I believe, why should I abandon what I know is right, especially since you have not given any solid proof I'm wrong.

I'm Agnostic, so I am looking at both sides to try and find an answer that makes since.

Please re read what you said. It confuses me to think YOU are right and I'M wrong...

I didn't say you were dumb, I said you seem not to have anything of intellectual use to give. I understand your thinking, you need to see actual proof before you will believe in anything. I see the world through my observations also, the difference is I've learned to observe through God's eyes and why not, He is the Creator after all.

Your god? You can't see the world if you have blinders on

Don't you think I feel the same way, I know for a fact God is real, and that He is who He says He is, but so many want listen, they would rather make fun of what I know. I'll say to you what I've said to many here and it's an undeniable truth, death will bring the truth to everyone or no one. Those are the only two options, it's all or nothing.

I'm saying I do know for sure, no doubts, absolutely sure. There are no other gods, if there were why haven't they come to me wanting me as their child. Everyone can come to know God now, that's one of the purposes of Christ. In the past most cultures abandoned God and chased after stone and wooden idols as their gods, even the Israelites. God chose to make them His people through Abraham to bring a knowledge of Him to the world again, God worked through history to reveal Himself in Christ.

Now I am intrigued, how has god shown you his existence? Can you give a few examples, please?

See my grandparents are Christian/Catholic. I have been to church, but have not been shown of gods existence.

[StoryBook]

Of course Buddha is dead, he was human. He didn't claim to be god or a part of god, like Jesus did. Buddhism is more of a life style, not a religion.

You say it's not a religion, there are millions in the world that would disagree with you. Exactly why should I want to live a life that a dead man believed to be the true way. Jesus is alive and because He is I have no reason to doubt Him.

It is a philosophy
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/5minbud.htm

Maybe you should open up your mind to the fact that people lived life before Jesus. That your god didn't "guide" people till some random day.

Do you think Siddhartha Gotama went to hell because he didn't believe in god? That would not be fair because god didn't show him self till centuries later.

What? Jesus is alive, I thought people killed him? How can he be so old? I don't understand where is he hiding? I did here something about Jesus being in Japan, it is said he died there to. I want to meet him. I hope its the real one and not an imposter. Why hasn't cleared up all this confusion yet?

[Esquilax]

Actually GC I do not think God can foresee, with absolute certainty, that Adam would sin. The future does not exist and thus no one, not even God can have knowledge of what does not exist. The whole point of free will is that it is free of external constrains. Adam's choice could not be fated. It was a possibility not yet actualized.

Which would make a good deal of sense, given the number of times god is surprised by stuff, or has to ask people questions, in the bible. The other alternative is a kind of Doctor Manhattan-style predetermination thing, where everything, even god acting surprised at things he knows will happen, is written, and he's just playing his part the same as anyone else, just with foreknowledge.

[Godscreated]

Actually GC I do not think God can foresee, with absolute certainty, that Adam would sin. The future does not exist and thus no one, not even God can have knowledge of what does not exist. The whole point of free will is that it is free of external constrains. Adam's choice could not be fated. It was a possibility not yet actualized.

Then are the prophecies God guessing about future events.

GC

---

You're being dishonest in your attempt to run down scriptures.

No, I'm not being dishonest, if I am you are too. I am making my own conclusion base on what I read and not what you want me to think.
You said god made to understand yet we still are reading it differently.

Yet you call me closed minded because I see evolution differently than you do. I base my conclusion on evolution by what I read, not what you want me to believe.

why I do not know unless you are afraid they might get you to start thinking.

I AM thinking, that is why I have so many questions and thoughts.

No you're rejecting every thing I've shown you, this is why you have so many questions, just to be honest I'm not clear on why you're asking are you?

I've looked at both sides, I study with an open mind and will ask God why do certain things in scripture seem to be contradictory or out of character, I continue to study until I receive the answers.

Your only asking god, and others in the same religion? How is that not one sided?
... see next quote

Do you ask questions of scientist who disagree with evolution, do you ever question the theory of evolution or do you just accept what you're told, and you question me about being one sided.

you believe I'm closed minded because you're right and I'm wrong, I see that as closed minded. You also believe I'm closed minded because I stick with what I believe, why should I abandon what I know is right, especially since you have not given any solid proof I'm wrong.

I'm Agnostic, so I am looking at both sides to try and find an answer that makes since.

Then please explain how you are honestly looking at both sides, when you reject every thing shown to you about God. How can you find the answers going the rejection route.

Please re read what you said. It confuses me to think YOU are right and I'M wrong...

Reread what?

I didn't say you were dumb, I said you seem not to have anything of intellectual use to give. I understand your thinking, you need to see actual proof before you will believe in anything. I see the world through my observations also, the difference is I've learned to observe through God's eyes and why not, He is the Creator after all.

Your god? You can't see the world if you have blinders on

Blinders, how so, like I said I look at things through God's eyes.

Don't you think I feel the same way, I know for a fact God is real, and that He is who He says He is, but so many want listen, they would rather make fun of what I know. I'll say to you what I've said to many here and it's an undeniable truth, death will bring the truth to everyone or no one. Those are the only two options, it's all or nothing.

I'm saying I do know for sure, no doubts, absolutely sure. There are no other gods, if there were why haven't they come to me wanting me as their child. Everyone can come to know God now, that's one of the purposes of Christ. In the past most cultures abandoned God and chased after stone and wooden idols as their gods, even the Israelites. God chose to make them His people through Abraham to bring a knowledge of Him to the world again, God worked through history to reveal Himself in Christ.

Now I am intrigued, how has god shown you his existence? Can you give a few examples, please?

By the relationship I have with Him, He has shown me many things over the years, like I said before answers to questions about His word that wasn't making sense to me. He completely changed my life, from a person who cared only for himself, a heavy drinker who enjoyed drinking, a user of drugs who enjoyed using them, into someone who enjoys helping others, giving of my time to serve others through teaching and leadership, I could have never done these things on my own, I use to get scared talking in front of a lot of people, now I'm completely comfortable with it. God promised to supply for me and He has, He's brought people to me to help with problems or just be a comfort to. God has made things in my life possible that I could never have on my own. I've asked very specific answers from God and have received answers in the most untimely places.

See my grandparents are Christian/Catholic. I have been to church, but have not been shown of gods existence.

I know how the Catholic Church can be, my wife use to be Catholic. Being Catholic seems to be more important than actually being a Christian. Ritual seems to be what drives most Catholics, please don't misunderstand I believe many Catholics are Christians, what I do not believe, is that for the most part the Catholic hierarchy cares about the salvation Christ brought to the world, the ritual part of the religion is more important to them, they go against some of the most basic teachings of the Bible, the Bible is our instruction book and shouldn't be ignored.

GC

[StoryBook]

Actually GC I do not think God can foresee, with absolute certainty, that Adam would sin. The future does not exist and thus no one, not even God can have knowledge of what does not exist. The whole point of free will is that it is free of external constrains. Adam's choice could not be fated. It was a possibility not yet actualized.

Then are the prophecies God guessing about future events.

GC

---

You're being dishonest in your attempt to run down scriptures.

No, I'm not being dishonest, if I am you are too. I am making my own conclusion base on what I read and not what you want me to think.
You said god made to understand yet we still are reading it differently.

Yet you call me closed minded because I see evolution differently than you do. I base my conclusion on evolution by what I read, not what you want me to believe.

why I do not know unless you are afraid they might get you to start thinking.

I AM thinking, that is why I have so many questions and thoughts.

No you're rejecting every thing I've shown you, this is why you have so many questions, just to be honest I'm not clear on why you're asking are you?

I've looked at both sides, I study with an open mind and will ask God why do certain things in scripture seem to be contradictory or out of character, I continue to study until I receive the answers.

Your only asking god, and others in the same religion? How is that not one sided?
... see next quote

Do you ask questions of scientist who disagree with evolution, do you ever question the theory of evolution or do you just accept what you're told, and you question me about being one sided.

you believe I'm closed minded because you're right and I'm wrong, I see that as closed minded. You also believe I'm closed minded because I stick with what I believe, why should I abandon what I know is right, especially since you have not given any solid proof I'm wrong.

I'm Agnostic, so I am looking at both sides to try and find an answer that makes since.

Then please explain how you are honestly looking at both sides, when you reject every thing shown to you about God. How can you find the answers going the rejection route.

Please re read what you said. It confuses me to think YOU are right and I'M wrong...

Reread what?

I didn't say you were dumb, I said you seem not to have anything of intellectual use to give. I understand your thinking, you need to see actual proof before you will believe in anything. I see the world through my observations also, the difference is I've learned to observe through God's eyes and why not, He is the Creator after all.

Your god? You can't see the world if you have blinders on

Blinders, how so, like I said I look at things through God's eyes.

Don't you think I feel the same way, I know for a fact God is real, and that He is who He says He is, but so many want listen, they would rather make fun of what I know. I'll say to you what I've said to many here and it's an undeniable truth, death will bring the truth to everyone or no one. Those are the only two options, it's all or nothing.

I'm saying I do know for sure, no doubts, absolutely sure. There are no other gods, if there were why haven't they come to me wanting me as their child. Everyone can come to know God now, that's one of the purposes of Christ. In the past most cultures abandoned God and chased after stone and wooden idols as their gods, even the Israelites. God chose to make them His people through Abraham to bring a knowledge of Him to the world again, God worked through history to reveal Himself in Christ.

Now I am intrigued, how has god shown you his existence? Can you give a few examples, please?

By the relationship I have with Him, He has shown me many things over the years, like I said before answers to questions about His word that wasn't making sense to me. He completely changed my life, from a person who cared only for himself, a heavy drinker who enjoyed drinking, a user of drugs who enjoyed using them, into someone who enjoys helping others, giving of my time to serve others through teaching and leadership, I could have never done these things on my own, I use to get scared talking in front of a lot of people, now I'm completely comfortable with it. God promised to supply for me and He has, He's brought people to me to help with problems or just be a comfort to. God has made things in my life possible that I could never have on my own. I've asked very specific answers from God and have received answers in the most untimely places.

See my grandparents are Christian/Catholic. I have been to church, but have not been shown of gods existence.

I know how the Catholic Church can be, my wife use to be Catholic. Being Catholic seems to be more important than actually being a Christian. Ritual seems to be what drives most Catholics, please don't misunderstand I believe many Catholics are Christians, what I do not believe, is that for the most part the Catholic hierarchy cares about the salvation Christ brought to the world, the ritual part of the religion is more important to them, they go against some of the most basic teachings of the Bible, the Bible is our instruction book and shouldn't be ignored.

GC

Ok, excuse me if I sound rude. I don’t mean to be, just trying to make things straight.

1. You say god, knows all and made it so everyone could understand his word. I find it very hard to understand that. How come no one can agree on the same thing? Why are their different ideas on what god ment?
I’m not trying to say you are wrong, just that you are not adding up…

2. I’m not calling you closed minded because you evolution different. I’ calling you closed minded because you claim to see through gods eyes, like god. Yet you are only seeing what you think he wants you to see, that’s closed minded. You are automatically assuming that because it is not in your book that there is not possibility of it, which is closed minded.

3. I do question things in evolution, BUT I do see truth in it. I do believe we have evolved from single cells, just look at pregnancy. See you have conditioned yourself to not question god but who created god? How did he become to be? There will always be questions to our excitants, not even you can delude yourself to know the reason to life or how it really came to be.

4. So science makes a little more sense to me than a 2000+ year old book that was writer centuries after you supposed creation. Science keeps discovering and researching new things, but you book stays with its misinterpreted stories. I can see things in science, but have yet to see a man walk on water.

5. I’m not rejecting as you say, I’m questing. What you say brings more questions to my head. Sorry if you make you think…

6. Honestly, drinking and drugs are pretty generic things. Many people stop without go. Can you elaborate more on how god helped you overcome that? How did he send people to help you?

7.

I know how the Catholic Church can be, my wife use to be Catholic. Being Catholic seems to be more important than actually being a Christian. Ritual seems to be what drives most Catholics, please don't misunderstand I believe many Catholics are Christians, what I do not believe, is that for the most part the Catholic hierarchy cares about the salvation Christ brought to the world, the ritual part of the religion is more important to them, they go against some of the most basic teachings of the Bible, the Bible is our instruction book and shouldn't be ignored.
GC

So you think that your way of understanding the bible is the only right way? I’m confused as to how you know that they are doing “wrong”? Does that mean they will go to hell?

you believe I'm closed minded because you're right and I'm wrong, I see that as closed minded. You also believe I'm closed minded because I stick with what I believe, why should I abandon what I know is right, especially since you have not given any solid proof I'm wrong.

Please re read what you said. It confuses me to think YOU are right and I'M wrong...

Reread what?

the bolded…


8. I find it sad and scary to worship someone that tells people to murder, promotes rape, promotes slavery, and deceives. He also gives threatening ultimatums. This is what I have learned and observed/ figured out

[Neo-Scholastic]

@GC, it depends on how the prophecy is presented. Some of God's prophecies have a "repent or else" format. In other cases fulfilment of the prophecy comes from a direct act of God's power apart from human choice. In effect God can make things happen too.