(January 9, 2014 at 12:17 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(January 9, 2014 at 12:13 pm)It Is i Wrote: I don't have a vagina nor a uterus. I haven't any say.

Thats the bottom line.

Whilst I agree, what about a woman who intentionally harms a foetus that she intends to keep by, eg, smoking?

(January 9, 2014 at 12:29 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote:

(January 9, 2014 at 12:17 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Thats the bottom line.

Whilst I agree, what about a woman who intentionally harms a foetus that she intends to keep by, eg, smoking?

It would seem that she has a choice to make between maintaining her addiction and the well-being of her unborn child.

(January 9, 2014 at 12:35 pm)It Is i Wrote:

(January 9, 2014 at 12:29 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: Whilst I agree, what about a woman who intentionally harms a foetus that she intends to keep by, eg, smoking?

It would seem that she has a choice to make between maintaining her addiction and the well-being of her unborn child.

And if she doesn't care about it's wellbeing, and indeed there are complications both in and post birth as a result?

(January 9, 2014 at 12:40 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote:

(January 9, 2014 at 12:35 pm)It Is i Wrote: It would seem that she has a choice to make between maintaining her addiction and the well-being of her unborn child.

And if she doesn't care about it's wellbeing, and indeed there are complications both in and post birth as a result?

Then she and the child will face challenges. I only hope that this hypothetical mother and child duo have the loving support of others to surround them.

(January 9, 2014 at 3:22 am)Fenix Wrote: The shame you can feel, the self hatred is very real and very intense. Abortions should not be taken lightly and should not be ruled by people who have no understanding of what it takes to mentally (and physically) to prepare yourself for it.

I'm asking this lovingly out of curiosity. If you hate yourself for doing it, why did you do it? If you're concerned about the life of the child, why not carry it to term and give it up for adoption to a couple who really wants the baby? That would save the child and appease your guilt. It's something you could feel good about instead of carrying the guilt with you all your life.

(January 9, 2014 at 12:29 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote:

(January 9, 2014 at 12:17 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Thats the bottom line.

Whilst I agree, what about a woman who intentionally harms a foetus that she intends to keep by, eg, smoking?

Absolutely. I have brought this up before. IMHO any woman should have the right to abort a fetus HOWEVER if the woman intends to bring the child to term then she has a duty of care which precludes smoking ,use of recreational drugs etc etc

(January 9, 2014 at 12:11 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Not my body, it is that simple.

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(January 9, 2014 at 12:05 pm)Chas Wrote: No.

Once the foetus is viable, it is no longer just about you.

Bullshit, pro birth does not constitute pro quality of life after birth. Unless it is your body you have no say, period.

No.

It is not that simple. Once the foetus is viable, there are two people to think about.

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(January 9, 2014 at 12:13 pm)It Is i Wrote: I don't have a vagina nor a uterus. I haven't any say.

I agree, up to the point when the foetus is viable. The rules change at that point since it no longer just the woman's interest at stake.

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(January 9, 2014 at 12:17 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(January 9, 2014 at 12:13 pm)It Is i Wrote: I don't have a vagina nor a uterus. I haven't any say.

Thats the bottom line.

No, it's not. It is not that simple once the foetus is viable.

Is it only the woman's business one minute before delivery? One hour? One day? One week? One month?

If you draw the line only at birth, it is no more supportable than drawing the line at viability.

At some point it is not only the woman's interest. Where do we draw that line?

Actually, I think "viability" is a load of crap. At what age can a human infant survive on its own in the wild?

You are basically sentencing a woman to 15-18 years of hard labor for getting pregnant. What gives you that right?

(January 9, 2014 at 6:49 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Actually, I think "viability" is a load of crap. At what age can a human infant survive on its own in the wild?

You are basically sentencing a woman to 15-18 years of hard labor for getting pregnant. What gives you that right?

I think your attitude is a load of crap.

Seriously, dude, at what point is there a person? Birth? What about C-section?

I'm not sentencing anyone to anything. The woman had six+ months to make a choice. Didn't choose? Gets default choice.