(January 10, 2014 at 3:18 pm)Drich Wrote: If you don't know how to google search something like sorcery at this point in your life then perhaps you should back burner sorcery for a while, and focous on the more basic stuff first.

Awwww. And I thought you were the local pro on this. No help? even if I asked nice?
I don't know if you realize this, but Google just indexes and ranks the information they find online. Look up Larry Page and PageRank algorithms. Let you in on a secret, it's not all true.
Can't you give me the real info? Whassa matter, don't you know?

It seems apparent that the answer to the OP's question involves an inability to distinguish what is real from what is not.

Drich pid='argumentateline='1389378747 Wrote:

(January 10, 2014 at 2:06 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: No, you shut the off when you are done cooking and supervise the child at all times. Unlike what god did which is simple leave the burner on and walk away after giving the child the rules.

The word 'ever' would denote a life time in this instance. If a child grows up being taught about the dangers of playing near a hot stove, and continues to do so in his 60s or 70s then the 'child' needs to be responsiable for his deeds!

Rules or rather in this instance your 'list of rules' is the teaching tool. we have been given a life time to determine whether or not we want to follow said rules, if yes we are taken to a place where the stoves are safe to touch always. if not then we get burned literally. However in this life we are exposed to things like hot stoves so we are in a position to determine for ourselves whether we want to live an eternity with them or without them.

Ah the old freewill argument. Funny thing is that the bible says we should always be like little children in the eyes of god. And I think a parent that leaves children in dangerous situations intentionally is a terrible parent, especially when said parent calls for the death of the child in the event a rule is broken. And because your god set up the rules thatbcall for death and created each person knowing which would dabble in witch craft that makes him a accessory before the fact and therefore subject to the same punishment as the perp.

(January 10, 2014 at 3:28 pm)JuliaL Wrote: DUDE! getting a million in cash is NOT trivial. It's serious business.

It is not all that it is cracked up to be, with great cash comes greater taxes and even more debt and responsiablity. There are no free rides, and once you enter that club you will find whatever you have is never enough. A million dollars is only worth a million dollars if you were to stay where you are at, and not spend it. however once you start living large that million dollars will go faster than if you were to burn it. Then you want to add a debt to Satan on top of all that? keep it.

Rather seek contentment. That is something money will never be able to buy.

Quote:We're talking about whether you can show your position on sorcery is valid.

what is my position? you seem to be floating in and out of the basic understanding of sourcery.

(January 10, 2014 at 3:44 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote:

Drich pid='argumentateline='1389378747 Wrote:The word 'ever' would denote a life time in this instance. If a child grows up being taught about the dangers of playing near a hot stove, and continues to do so in his 60s or 70s then the 'child' needs to be responsiable for his deeds!

Rules or rather in this instance your 'list of rules' is the teaching tool. we have been given a life time to determine whether or not we want to follow said rules, if yes we are taken to a place where the stoves are safe to touch always. if not then we get burned literally. However in this life we are exposed to things like hot stoves so we are in a position to determine for ourselves whether we want to live an eternity with them or without them.

Ah the old freewill argument. Funny thing is that the bible says we should always be like little children in the eyes of god. And I think a parent that leaves children in dangerous situations intentionally is a terrible parent, especially when said parent calls for the death of the child in the event a rule is broken. And because your god set up the rules thatbcall for death and created each person knowing which would dabble in witch craft that makes him a accessory before the fact and therefore subject to the same punishment as the perp.

Its predetermination if good hasa plan for us. regardless of our free will

(January 10, 2014 at 4:11 pm)Drich Wrote: It is not all that it is cracked up to be, with great cash comes greater taxes and even more debt and responsiablity. There are no free rides, and once you enter that club you will find whatever you have is never enough. A million dollars is only worth a million dollars if you were to stay where you are at, and not spend it. however once you start living large that million dollars will go faster than if you were to burn it. Then you want to add a debt to Satan on top of all that? keep it.

Rather seek contentment. That is something money will never be able to buy.

Well, thank you sensai. Great deepity-do.

JuliaL Wrote:We're talking about whether you can show your position on sorcery is valid.

Drich Wrote:what is my position? you seem to be floating in and out of the basic understanding of sourcery.

True, you'd know your position better than me. My interpretation of your position is that you think sorcery exists as some sort of supernatural cause and effect of demons and demon magic.
Show me. It'd be great evidence that your other claims of the supernatural have merit. I'd listen to them with a LOT more respect.
And it'd be worth $1,000,000.00 which ain't hay.

(January 10, 2014 at 3:31 pm)Mr Greene Wrote:

(January 10, 2014 at 2:38 pm)Drich Wrote: it depends on their motives. Are they doing it as a way to petition a demon or Spirit to help them get rid of their head ache?

To put it another way sorcery is a way for a person to trade a 'favor' for a 'bit -o-magic' from a demon.

One man can chew the willow bark for the Salicin (the percursor of asprin) and another may do it to curry favor for some spirit or anti saint of fever and head aches... The act is the same, the determining factor is the heart and intention of the man doing the chewing.

So it's sorcery if you have a headache and take a couple of aspirin in the name of The Mighty Jagrafess of the Holy Hadrojassic Maxarodenfoe?

rather in the effort of trying to get your non God entity of choice to do something on your behalf.

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(January 10, 2014 at 3:41 pm)JuliaL Wrote:

(January 10, 2014 at 3:18 pm)Drich Wrote: If you don't know how to google search something like sorcery at this point in your life then perhaps you should back burner sorcery for a while, and focous on the more basic stuff first.

Awwww. And I thought you were the local pro on this. No help? even if I asked nice?
I don't know if you realize this, but Google just indexes and ranks the information they find online. Look up Larry Page and PageRank algorithms. Let you in on a secret, it's not all true.
Can't you give me the real info? Whassa matter, don't you know?

I've given you everything you need to know, but it seems you don't comperhend, rather you believe the key to sorcery is a nonsequitor, and you persist in seeking the manifestation of the fictional version of it.

(January 10, 2014 at 11:18 am)Drich Wrote:

(January 10, 2014 at 3:18 am)xr34p3rx Wrote: So let me emphasize the reason of this post.
For the people who dont know my background (as probably no one does), i live in a christian home, father is a pastor and when they see me watching harry potter, they say its "bad". I ask why? Its just bad...

I fail to understand why people think its wrong or in some way have a correlation with satan...?
its like saying a hammer is bad...? why dont they say the same to Hulk or Captain America...? maybe Thor as well? its all fantasy!

This is most directed to theists but my fellow atheists are free to comment

It has to do with the use of sorcery. We are told to stay away from sorcery not because it is fantasy, but because there is a power that drives sorcery that is not of God.

In other words there are some aspects of Harry potter translate into real world applications, and yet because it is paired with fantasy all of it is trivialized and dismissed as harmless, when in fact what has happened is a general desensitization to the whole subject of sorcery has happened making the young to feel comfortable around the powers and practice of real world sorcery.

I know the knee jerk response to taunt what I have said and trivialize the warning, but wouldn't that be the point I was making? Because wizards have been made into fictional characters it allows pop culture to assume all references to sorcery must also be to fiction, and to think otherwise is foolishness. When in fact satan is real, He is the master of this domain, and does indeed have the power to influence and effect those under his rule. when done in conjunction with man this is known as sorcery.

and what makes it bad? its like i said, calling a hammer is bad is not reasonable. its a tool, it then depends on the person what they use it for. sorcery is a tool and it depends on what the sorcerer does with it, as evident in the series and books.

and please tell me who is the good guy... god or satan?

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(January 10, 2014 at 11:50 am)Dragonetti Wrote: Many people in the middle east believe Harry Potter exists.

youre kidding o.o

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(January 10, 2014 at 12:12 pm)Drich Wrote:

(January 10, 2014 at 11:55 am)Chas Wrote: Please provide evidence of the existence of sorcery. Otherwise, you've slipped another notch down the Batshit Crazy Scale™.

What would said evidence look like? what form would it come in?

what evidence would look like? the same evidence that we can see with our eyes... thats kind of a facepalm question

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(January 10, 2014 at 12:39 pm)Drich Wrote:

(January 10, 2014 at 12:13 pm)Dragonetti Wrote: How about jumping off a bridge then chanting something to make you fly?

Actually that is not sorcery, that is fiction.

Biblical examples include petitioning satan/Demons/Familiar Spirits via potions and cermonial rituals for the supernatural ablity to heal, make someone sick, entertain (As Simon did in acts 8) or to maniuplate and control a persons situation.

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(January 10, 2014 at 12:21 pm)Chas Wrote: Why are you asking me? You are the one who says it exists. Show us the evidence of it.

You are making the claim. The burden of proof be upon thee.

I am asking you to define what you are looking for to ensure that you know what it is your looking for. If you are seeking evidence to support a fictional understanding of sorcery then we need to first work on your understanding of the word.

Drich... it all leads to you to prove that it exists, we as atheist say its fiction but you say otherwise, now the burden of proof lies on you to provide valid evidence for your claim...
So do you have proof or not? why do you believe it is real?

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(January 10, 2014 at 12:51 pm)Drich Wrote:

(January 10, 2014 at 12:30 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote: Yea Drich, shouldn't you be able to tell us about the evidence that persuaded you that witchcraft is real? Or did you just believe it along with the rest of the bible?

The point I was making and you all seem all too eager to verify is that by accepting fictional accounts of things like witchcraft and sorcery, you have turn a blind eye to how it truly manifest itself.

Sorcery is not about harry potter magic, it is about using things like herbs and chants to get a desired result, from something as small as getting rid of a head ache or giving someone a head ache to killing them or healing them. Sorcery is about seeking means of changing one's situation outside of God. It is seeking to by pass God in hopes to control or manage one's own life, through other 'powers.'

so now prove that it actually works... and if it does then that means that sorcery, which is closely as probably just science... nothing wrong with that at all! medicine is made form plants and chemicals. you use them all the time i bet. so you yourself are participating in sorcery! meaning you should be killed according to your book

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(January 10, 2014 at 2:23 pm)Drich Wrote:

(January 10, 2014 at 1:25 pm)JuliaL Wrote: Are you claiming that all instances of sorcery outside the bibble are fiction?

where did i say that, or rather what did I say to make you assume that? I said every example being presented was fiction, that the bible gave/gives examples, and the examples given are not of the cartoon vareity being referenced by you all.

Again sorcery is an attempt to petition Spirits,demons or satan himself through ritual and or potions/chemical means to acheave a desired effect. in an attempt to bypass the provaunaunce of God/God's will.

It is the intention to bypass God and petition another source of power through whatever means that what makes sorcery, sorcery. not the acts themselves.

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(January 10, 2014 at 2:17 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote: Is all sorcery bad then? Because I don't see someone healing someone else with magic, as a bad thing.

yes.

Take away the term 'magic' and replace it with demons, or a deal from the devil. If you had cancer and the devil offered you a full life in exchange for something to be determined at a later date would you take the deal or die?

Sorcery is petitioning essentially the devil for a favor now for something else later.. lest you think he is satasified with chicken feet and incense.

no because that would completely change the subject of the argument. the subject of the argument is magic/sorcery, not demons

Rituals to heal? Like praying to god?

How about surgery to heal cancer or remove the appendix?

(January 10, 2014 at 5:22 pm)Dragonetti Wrote: Rituals to heal? Like praying to god?

How about surgery to heal cancer or remove the appendix?

its ok to pray for healing but its not ok to help others heal when he himself doesnt do it....? sounds reasonable (sarcasm)