We can actually still see the Big Bang. The universe took a pretty nice photo of it that our astronomers can view at their leisure.

Also, yes, we were all present at the Big Bang, in one form or another.

Ok so what it boils down to is really the following: Jesus really doesn't live up to my ethical standards, which are much better than his. Sorry, Rev, your messiah is not good enough for me. Also, most every poor soul dying of cancer today suffers more than he did back then on the cross - I mean come on, he knew he was the son of god. He basically did it on purpose!

(April 2, 2014 at 12:39 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:

(March 30, 2014 at 9:29 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: I look at it very differently. Satan, who was cast down from heaven and an enemy of God, has been working hard to keep people from believing the one means for us to be saved, Christ. So he has orchestrated similar stories from pagan religions so when the real thing happened it could be discredited by such skeptics as yourself. Imitation is the greatest flattery. However, the real Savior did stand up.

Poor devil. Only fictional character who can do something first and be framed as the one doing the imitating.

RevisionistReality777.

Yes, "the devil" went around seeding Christian traditions within Pagan and pre christian religions worldwide, knowing Christians would eventually launch missionary campaigns to enslave the indigenous people and steal their religious traditions...

So that skeptics would later be able to claim Christianity absorbed pagan traditions, like Easter, Christmas, symbolic cannibalism, elements of Zororastrianism, Horus, and...

Why does everything have to be a conspiracy?

When Jesus was crucified he suffered a mild inconvenience, a hiccup, if you will, in the grand scheme of things. Calling what happened to him a "sacrifice" a gross exaggeration of the story's details

When Gandalf the Grey was pulled from the Fellowship by the Balrog, it was a small road bump in the journey to Mordor. He returned from the depths of the earth, reborn as Gandalf the White. Arguably, Frodo and Sam didn't even need help getting to their goal. And remember that Gandalf also saved the two Hobbits before they burned alive, which is more than we can say for the resurrected Jesus, who didn't care to step in when Peter was crucified upside down.

(April 2, 2014 at 1:34 pm)Bad Writer Wrote: When Jesus was crucified he suffered a mild inconvenience, a hiccup, if you will, in the grand scheme of things. Calling what happened to him a "sacrifice" a gross exaggeration of the story's details

When Gandalf the Grey was pulled from the Fellowship by the Balrog, it was a small road bump in the journey to Mordor. He returned from the depths of the earth, reborn as Gandalf the White. Arguably, Frodo and Sam didn't even need help getting to their goal. And remember that Gandalf also saved the two Hobbits before they burned alive, which is more than we can say for the resurrected Jesus, who didn't care to step in when Peter was crucified upside down.

Would upside down crucifixion even work?
It puts totally different mechanical pressures on the body.

(April 2, 2014 at 1:51 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Would upside down crucifixion even work?
It puts totally different mechanical pressures on the body.

Just add more nails!

(March 31, 2014 at 10:01 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: They testified of Him in by far the most popular book ever written.

When you make an argument that contains a fallacy like argument ad populum, it doesn't mean your conclusion is wrong, but it does mean that if you're right, it doesn't have anything to do with the argument you made.

Since it's been pointed out to you that it's a fallacy to think that something's popularity makes it more likely to be true, you're aware of this particular fallacy and that you're communicating with an audience that notices and cares if your arguments contain fallacies.

To continue to use it in the face of that information, it's reasonable to infer that you actually don't care one whit about reaching any of us.

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(March 31, 2014 at 10:04 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: I am doing as the Lord is directing me. He has placed a love in my heart for atheists.

It's nice that you feel that way, and I don't say it to make fun. The one thing Christians often claim that they should be able to demonstrate is that they're better people for having a relationship with Jesus. Arguably the only original moral teaching of Jesus was to love your enemies.

Just remember that you can't sincerely say you love someone if you're unwilling to try to understand them.

And maybe ask Jesus to place a more convincing approach in your brain to go along with the love in your heart.

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(March 31, 2014 at 10:12 pm)Revelation777 Wrote:

(March 31, 2014 at 10:11 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: Guard your buttholes. GUARD YOUR BUTTHOLES!

I'm happily married.

Glad to see you're able to keep your humor in the face of derision.

(March 31, 2014 at 10:12 pm)Revelation777 Wrote:

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(March 31, 2014 at 10:52 am)Alex K Wrote: There is a nice episode or two of the "Reasonable Doubts" podcast explaining why all the alleged early christian martyrdom is not quite what it's usually made out to be.

Where they there?

I think the folly of raising an objection that can apply equally to you has been pointed out more than once. Why do you keep doing it?

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(April 1, 2014 at 10:36 am)Revelation777 Wrote:

(March 31, 2014 at 10:32 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: I love the atheists. I will show this love by acting like an ignorant, condescending douche on their forums!

Not my intentions at all. Sorry you feel that way.

For what it's worth, I believe that you don't intend to come off as condescending and that you're coming from a place of sincerity. We get a lot of trolls in these parts, and the benefit of the doubt can be hard to come by.

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(April 2, 2014 at 8:50 am)Revelation777 Wrote: If I, the messenger is flawed, I apologize, I'm a work in progress. But the message is one of truth, hope, and love.

You're the only evidence for your message available. In this case, the messenger IS the message. You convey your message, especially if it's about truth, hope, and love; with your comportment as well as your words.

And you're making an effort in that regard, which is more than I can say for some messengers we've gotten around here.

Quote:If I, the messenger is flawed, I apologize,

Nah. The message is bullshit. You can only work with what you are given.

Time to let it go.

(April 1, 2014 at 10:42 am)Revelation777 Wrote:

(March 31, 2014 at 10:35 pm)Rampant.A.I. Wrote: Good, so you're done posting?

I come as an ambassador for Christ.

You sure???

(April 1, 2014 at 1:29 pm)Aral Gamelon Wrote:

(April 1, 2014 at 10:42 am)Revelation777 Wrote: I come as an ambassador for Christ. I do not want to offend you but I want to bring the hope I have to you. This hope is based on the truth of Christ and the love he has for mankind.

*bold added by me*

I think it's bloody hilarious how often I hear this line. Let me ask you something Rev;

If your god needs pompous, ignorant, worn-out-platitude-spitting proselytizers such as yourself to get his message out, what does that say about your god?

If your god wants to bring me his love and hope then, as the omniscient/omnipresent/omnipotent bastard he's supposed to be, he knows where to fucking find me.

Now fuck off.

I am humbled God would use such a man as I am to do anything for Him. I am a wretched man without Christ.