(April 7, 2014 at 10:17 pm)truthBtold Wrote:

(April 7, 2014 at 10:13 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Innumerable intellectuals, professionals, and even scientists embrace intelligent design. Over 80% of Americans believe there is a God. Name me one US President that was an atheist? Sir, you are in the minority.

Minority huh? Say that to a black guy..

Argument ad populum, you're not addressing what was said. And I don't know who told you I was an atheist. Anyway:

Innumerable? Let's see how how many scientists embrace ID:

Quote:The vast majority of the scientific community and academia supports evolutionary theory as the only explanation that can fully account for observations in the fields of biology, paleontology, molecular biology, genetics, anthropology, and others.[19][20][21][22][23] One 1987 estimate found that "700 scientists ... (out of a total of 480,000 U.S. earth and life scientists) ... give credence to creation-science".[24] An expert in the evolution-creationism controversy, professor and author Brian Alters, states that "99.9 percent of scientists accept evolution".[25] A 1991 Gallup poll found that about 5% of American scientists (including those with training outside biology) identified themselves as creationists.[26][27]

These don't seen like innumerable numbers. You've presented it as if the majority of scientists support intelligent design, which is simply not true.

Quote:An overwhelming majority of the scientific community accepts evolution as the dominant scientific theory of biological diversity.[1][2] Nearly every scientific society, representing hundreds of thousands of scientists, has issued statements rejecting intelligent design[2] and a petition supporting the teaching of evolutionary biology was endorsed by 72 US Nobel Prize winners.[3] Additionally, US courts have ruled in favor of teaching evolution in science classrooms, and against teaching creationism, in numerous cases such as Edwards v. Aguillard, Hendren v. Campbell, McLean v. Arkansas and Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District.

So I have to ask: where are you getting your information?

Did someone tell you it's scientific consensus?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_..._evolution

(April 8, 2014 at 10:45 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: You know what would be more impressive than nothing unusual happening?

Something unusual happening!

Oh, no, no, no, no... you'd have no free will, then!

(April 7, 2014 at 10:57 pm)Revelation777 Wrote:

(April 6, 2014 at 4:32 am)Esquilax Wrote: Before I do- and I will, voluminously- I have two questions for you, that will determine the spirit in which you made this comment: What do you think evolution is? And what research did you do on it before you decided it was wrong?

I'd really appreciate an answer to those, because that's important. Now that the housekeeping is out of the way, I'm going to have to show you up, because you just stepped into my wheelhouse.

First of all, the fossil record absolutely does show evolution happening. You were just dead wrong on that, as literally five seconds on google shows. This tells me you didn't really do much research at all, which doesn't surprise me, but it does sadden me and remove all the credibility from your other arguments.

Genetics shows our evolution too. That's just there.

Oh look, here's some examples of evolution happening live!

So now you have evidence, there's literally no excuse for you to deny evolution anymore. Unless you don't even click on the links here, which I hope doesn't happen, but you do seem to be the kind of person who'll remain willfully ignorant rather than risk questioning your beliefs. It's up to you, though, so ask yourself this question: how honest do you want to be in approaching these questions?

Lying is a sin, isn't it? And if you continue to misrepresent science like you have been, you are lying. There are ways to find this stuff out, and if you do so before you decide whether or not you disagree with something, you'll be much, much more honest than you are right now.

Sorry that I didn't reply to this post. I do believe and understand that there are changes that take place within species. However, In the Beginning God created various creatures after THEIR KIND. Dogs have evolves into many variations of various breeds but we don't find dogs turning into a different kind all together like a human.

No one with even a 3rd grade science education would make Crocoduck claims like "we don't see dogs evolving into a different kind all together like humans, so evolution is clearly false"

Whoever told you Evolution is the process of "kinds" morphing into completely different species is an idiot, and you're parroting the same idiocy, showing you have absolutely no idea what the process of evolution is, and are criticizing a ludicrous strawman, not evolutionary science.

It's clear you didn't even bother to visit one of the links. Continuing to regurgitate talking points that have already been corrected, and plagiarizing ID websites to make your claims is only exposing you as an uneducated fool, arguing against science you pretend to understand, but clearly don't.

(April 8, 2014 at 10:45 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: There's so much about presuppositionalism that is just so laughably batshit but for now this part is my favorite.

Essentially, it boils down to "Look! Nothing! That proves something!"

Or more specifically, "Look! Nothing unusual happened! That proves some unseen supernatural force must have acted upon it to prevent anything unusual from happening!"

It's a masterfully deft display of mental slight of hand. It turns zero evidence into evidence of its own kind.

You know what would be more impressive than nothing unusual happening?

Something unusual happening!

Oh, but god promised that everything would be as it is until the end, so the fact that nothing unusual is happening is proof that something unusual happened in the past when god made everything!

You couldn't have this complete normalcy without a past filled with magic creation and enchantments, because god sez so!

(April 8, 2014 at 11:06 am)pocaracas Wrote: Oh, no, no, no, no... you'd have no free will, then!

Love that argument too. My usual response is to point out that the god of the Bible strangely enough had no problems with overt displays of supernatural events, from booming voices in the sky at Jesus' baptism to angels killing Herod Antipas to people of faith performing miracles.

Did you know that Peter was so cool, he could heal the sick just by walking by? Jesus had to lay on hands. Peter could cast multiple cure spells as a free action at extended ranges. I wish my D&D cleric could do that.

Quote:ACTS 5:15-16 Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.
There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.

Yeah, Yahweh was just so subtle in the Babble.

DP.... yahweh has become shy of late... he now lets his clerics do the talking.


On a more real note, it's all written by people. The hint is in the word "fiction"

(April 8, 2014 at 2:07 am)Cinjin Wrote:

(April 7, 2014 at 11:14 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: When the hardened Roman Centurian witness what He did at the cross two thousand years ago he said, "Certain, this was the Son of God!"

Again - that phrase is taken from the same book that makes the claim of his deity.
With that sort of logic, every religion can argue that they have proof of their deity simply by drawing attention to the witnesses they wrote in for themselves.

Indeed. The faithful are unable to point to anything pertaining to their pet gods that doesn't come from their mythology. It's the only place where such things exist and the fact they don't even try to deny it or even realise it - until they're forced to retreat into personal experience, which can be dismissed out of hand barring evidence never proffered - does nothing to contradict that. They don't worship a god; they worship a book.

If Rev's a Poe, he's a damn good one.

Starting to wonder though as the level of thick-headedness is sizable.

(April 8, 2014 at 12:12 pm)Stimbo Wrote:

(April 8, 2014 at 2:07 am)Cinjin Wrote: Again - that phrase is taken from the same book that makes the claim of his deity.
With that sort of logic, every religion can argue that they have proof of their deity simply by drawing attention to the witnesses they wrote in for themselves.

Indeed. The faithful are unable to point to anything pertaining to their pet gods that doesn't come from their mythology. It's the only place where such things exist and the fact they don't even try to deny it or even realise it - until they're forced to retreat into personal experience, which can be dismissed out of hand barring evidence never proffered - does nothing to contradict that. They don't worship a god; they worship a book.

Of course they worship a book. It's a magic book, such that, everything in it is absolutely true. Even when the book is obviously wrong -- it's still magically right -- just add lame excuses, word games, and threats of hell.

As an added bonus the book is vague and ambiguous so it can be construed to mean anything the believer wants it to mean -- so it's an always handy-dandy excuse for any kind of bad behavior the believer wants to engage in without having to be accountable for that behavior, because -- magic storybook said so.

(April 8, 2014 at 12:19 pm)JesusHChrist Wrote: If Rev's a Poe, he's a damn good one.

There's only one Reverend Poe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWSOxpOJxAE