The Historical Jesus is real and He rose from the grave

[Rampant.A.I.]

[pocaracas]

You know what would be more impressive than nothing unusual happening?

Something unusual happening!

Oh, no, no, no, no... you'd have no free will, then!

[Rampant.A.I.]

[Esquilax]

There's so much about presuppositionalism that is just so laughably batshit but for now this part is my favorite.

Essentially, it boils down to "Look! Nothing! That proves something!"

Or more specifically, "Look! Nothing unusual happened! That proves some unseen supernatural force must have acted upon it to prevent anything unusual from happening!"

It's a masterfully deft display of mental slight of hand. It turns zero evidence into evidence of its own kind.

You know what would be more impressive than nothing unusual happening?

Something unusual happening!

Oh, but god promised that everything would be as it is until the end, so the fact that nothing unusual is happening is proof that something unusual happened in the past when god made everything!

You couldn't have this complete normalcy without a past filled with magic creation and enchantments, because god sez so!

[DeistPaladin]

Oh, no, no, no, no... you'd have no free will, then!

Love that argument too. My usual response is to point out that the god of the Bible strangely enough had no problems with overt displays of supernatural events, from booming voices in the sky at Jesus' baptism to angels killing Herod Antipas to people of faith performing miracles.

Did you know that Peter was so cool, he could heal the sick just by walking by? Jesus had to lay on hands. Peter could cast multiple cure spells as a free action at extended ranges. I wish my D&D cleric could do that.

ACTS 5:15-16 Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.
There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.

Yeah, Yahweh was just so subtle in the Babble.

[pocaracas]

DP.... yahweh has become shy of late... he now lets his clerics do the talking.


On a more real note, it's all written by people. The hint is in the word "fiction"

[Cyberman]

When the hardened Roman Centurian witness what He did at the cross two thousand years ago he said, "Certain, this was the Son of God!"

Again - that phrase is taken from the same book that makes the claim of his deity.
With that sort of logic, every religion can argue that they have proof of their deity simply by drawing attention to the witnesses they wrote in for themselves.

Indeed. The faithful are unable to point to anything pertaining to their pet gods that doesn't come from their mythology. It's the only place where such things exist and the fact they don't even try to deny it or even realise it - until they're forced to retreat into personal experience, which can be dismissed out of hand barring evidence never proffered - does nothing to contradict that. They don't worship a god; they worship a book.

[JesusHChrist]

If Rev's a Poe, he's a damn good one.

Starting to wonder though as the level of thick-headedness is sizable.

[Godlesspanther]

Again - that phrase is taken from the same book that makes the claim of his deity.
With that sort of logic, every religion can argue that they have proof of their deity simply by drawing attention to the witnesses they wrote in for themselves.

Indeed. The faithful are unable to point to anything pertaining to their pet gods that doesn't come from their mythology. It's the only place where such things exist and the fact they don't even try to deny it or even realise it - until they're forced to retreat into personal experience, which can be dismissed out of hand barring evidence never proffered - does nothing to contradict that. They don't worship a god; they worship a book.

Of course they worship a book. It's a magic book, such that, everything in it is absolutely true. Even when the book is obviously wrong -- it's still magically right -- just add lame excuses, word games, and threats of hell.

As an added bonus the book is vague and ambiguous so it can be construed to mean anything the believer wants it to mean -- so it's an always handy-dandy excuse for any kind of bad behavior the believer wants to engage in without having to be accountable for that behavior, because -- magic storybook said so.

[Cyberman]