(May 10, 2014 at 5:54 pm)Lek Wrote: That is true. Faith is a spiritual thing. We do have to respond to God's call in order to believe. Just reading all the documents from various religions and then deciding which sounds more like the truth doesn't work.

If it's that simple, then all of the gods currently being worshiped by people around the world exist. Otherwise, you would need to believe that only the call of your god was legit. And if that's the case, then you're only one step away from being an atheist.

(May 10, 2014 at 6:40 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote:

(May 10, 2014 at 5:40 pm)Lek Wrote: You just verified what I said. You simply choose not to believe it. You want someone other than a christian to write about him before you'll accept it as truth.

Are you ill? I mean, do you have full cognitive abilities? I'm asking because I can't for the life of me see how your reply answers my question or how it relates to anything I posted

What I want is evidence, not the same nonsensical drivel posted by people who I suspect might be mentally hilarious.

The bible is a claim, not evidence. All this bullshit about 'choosing not to believe' just makes you seem a fool, not that it wasn't already self-evident.

On a side note, if you're the best your version of whatever god it is you want to suck the dick of has to offer, then son, I am disappoint. Again, you've got a brain right? Try using yeah? Maybe you want to try putting that vast reserve of intellectual prowess to good work in answering why an author who claims to be writing 'the truth' is somehow not making a claim?

Alright already! Call it a claim and don't have a heart attack.

(May 10, 2014 at 11:47 pm)Lek Wrote: Alright already! Call it a claim and don't have a heart attack.

Sometimes it helps to restate the opposing positions.

My side says that mankind has a propensity to make "WooWoo" gods with supernatural powers to comfort them in their vast ignorance. The Christian god was created from a combining of the ancient Jordanian and Israel gods about 2000 bc. and the jewish religion born of that was doing well until the roman occupations. Christianity sprouted from multiple dissent groups within the mid-east Jewry that demanded a Messiah to deliver them from the hands of the Romans. When the reality became evident that that wasn't going to happen, A writer named "Paul" created the whole "jesus was the son of god and his messiah-ship meant something new, that he didn't have to save us from the Romans, he had to save us from the Debbil, and a new burning hell." Sleekly plying men's fear of death, and finally convincing a roman emperor of the silly new religion, the word of jesus was spread at the tip of a spear and became a mishmash of the old roman pagan beliefs and the new jesus jewism. As new generations were raised in this religion, new writers constantly polished both the words and the hard sell.
And boom that is why you are a christian. No god involved except for the one that you imagine talking telepathically in "warm feeling" code during your prayers.

I presume your version tows the line that you were one day touched by guilt and prayed to jesus to save you and that he told you in a magical elf voice in your head that he loved you and that he is going to save you from himself and your deserved punishment of hell.


Am I way off??

Brother refuses to answer if he was circumcised...I wonder how honest his other claims are given that he cannot answer a simple question.

(May 11, 2014 at 10:16 am)Brakeman Wrote:

(May 10, 2014 at 11:47 pm)Lek Wrote: Alright already! Call it a claim and don't have a heart attack.

Sometimes it helps to restate the opposing positions.

My side says that mankind has a propensity to make "WooWoo" gods with supernatural powers to comfort them in their vast ignorance. The Christian god was created from a combining of the ancient Jordanian and Israel gods about 2000 bc. and the jewish religion born of that was doing well until the roman occupations. Christianity sprouted from multiple dissent groups within the mid-east Jewry that demanded a Messiah to deliver them from the hands of the Romans. When the reality became evident that that wasn't going to happen, A writer named "Paul" created the whole "jesus was the son of god and his messiah-ship meant something new, that he didn't have to save us from the Romans, he had to save us from the Debbil, and a new burning hell." Sleekly plying men's fear of death, and finally convincing a roman emperor of the silly new religion, the word of jesus was spread at the tip of a spear and became a mishmash of the old roman pagan beliefs and the new jesus jewism. As new generations were raised in this religion, new writers constantly polished both the words and the hard sell.
And boom that is why you are a christian. No god involved except for the one that you imagine talking telepathically in "warm feeling" code during your prayers.

I presume your version tows the line that you were one day touched by guilt and prayed to jesus to save you and that he told you in a magical elf voice in your head that he loved you and that he is going to save you from himself and your deserved punishment of hell.


Am I way off??

First of all, your explanation of how Christianity came about is really silly and the Jews were expecting the messiah long before they were occupied by the Romans. Read the prophets. As far as how I became a christian - I was raised as a Catholic and so had plenty of guilt to deal with since I was a kid. I really wasn't a christian I just spent my time trying to follow all the rules and going to confession every so often to confess the times I broke them. I figured that when judgement came if my good stuff outweighed my bad stuff I would go to heaven. I did pretty well until I went overseas in the military and was away from the family and I became a drunken whore monger. I'd even wake up on Sunday mornings with a major hangover, with whatever woman I happened to sleep with that night, and hurried to the base chapel for mass. When I returned to the US I happened to get in with some friends who were Christians and they introduced me to the faith. It wasn't long after that I realized I wasn't going to get to heaven by my own means, so I put my faith in Christ to get me there. Since then I've been trying my best to follow what he taught, and over time, with the help of the Spirit it's getting better, but I wont't be perfect until I get to heaven.

(May 10, 2014 at 11:47 pm)Lek Wrote:

(May 10, 2014 at 6:40 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: Are you ill? I mean, do you have full cognitive abilities? I'm asking because I can't for the life of me see how your reply answers my question or how it relates to anything I posted

What I want is evidence, not the same nonsensical drivel posted by people who I suspect might be mentally hilarious.

The bible is a claim, not evidence. All this bullshit about 'choosing not to believe' just makes you seem a fool, not that it wasn't already self-evident.

On a side note, if you're the best your version of whatever god it is you want to suck the dick of has to offer, then son, I am disappoint. Again, you've got a brain right? Try using yeah? Maybe you want to try putting that vast reserve of intellectual prowess to good work in answering why an author who claims to be writing 'the truth' is somehow not making a claim?

Alright already! Call it a claim and don't have a heart attack.

Now retract the statement where you said I don't want to 'believe' (???? Nonsensical) on whatever imaginary magical sky fairy you put your faith in.

I don't care one iota about what you believe if it doesn't affect me, but don't dare to presume to tell me what I do and don't believe.

And now you've (finally) admitted that your bible is simply a claim and not evidence, we can start looking at a debate whereby you realise that the justification for your beliefs are based entirely on circular reasoning. Which is fine, whatever works for you. But you can't then sit there and pretend they're not.

Well, I think that there should be two purposes of a person. An individual purpose, and a collective purpose. Religion can actually give both, though I rather have a political and worldly purpose as a collective purpose. Religious devotion, imo, is a noble pursuit, something that requires personal sacrifice, and therefore should be centered around individual self-restraint and other spiritual undertakings.

(May 11, 2014 at 5:02 pm)Lek Wrote: First of all, your explanation of how Christianity came about is really silly and the Jews were expecting the messiah long before they were occupied by the Romans. Read the prophets. As far as how I became a christian - I was raised as a Catholic and so had plenty of guilt to deal with since I was a kid. I really wasn't a christian I just spent my time trying to follow all the rules and going to confession every so often to confess the times I broke them. I figured that when judgement came if my good stuff outweighed my bad stuff I would go to heaven.

I did pretty well until I went overseas in the military and was away from the family and I became a drunken whore monger. I'd even wake up on Sunday mornings with a major hangover, with whatever woman I happened to sleep with that night, and hurried to the base chapel for mass. When I returned to the US I happened to get in with some friends who were Christians and they introduced me to the faith. It wasn't long after that I realized I wasn't going to get to heaven by my own means, so I put my faith in Christ to get me there. Since then I've been trying my best to follow what he taught, and over time, with the help of the Spirit it's getting better, but I wont't be perfect until I get to heaven.

I don't understand how you will not go to heaven. Jesus died for your sins on the cross, so whatever sins you do, it's paid for, it's ok. You can rob also!

And, if you are guided by the spirit, you must be a Muslim also! What did Jesus say in John 16:12? He said:

" I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now."
" Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."
" He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you."

He speaks of? The coming of prophet Muhammad peace be upon him! He has many things to teach, but the time has not yet come! The people could not have grasped onto the message! So he left the remaining task to Muhammad. Like it is mentioned in the song of solomon, chapter number 5, verse number 16, I quote it in Hebrew:

"Hiku mamtakeem, vihullo Muhammadin, zedudii vei zerii, benok Jerusaleem."

He is MUHAMMAD, o daughters of Jerusalem. He is MUHAMMAD! Din is the plural of respect in Hebrew and Muhammad is where the prophet is mentioned by name in the Bible. Did you know that?

Also, when Jesus died on the cross he cried to God "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?". In hebrew father is ABBA. Does Eli sound like ABBA? Father? To me it sounds like ALLAH! ALLAH OH MY GOD. ALLAH!

So Jesus was a Muslim. Your Bible hugging friends mislead you! You're worshiping a prophet. In fact, Jesus never claimed divinity in the Bible. I want you to point out a single unequivocal statement from the Bible where Jesus himself says "I'm God" or where he says "worship me" and I'm ready to embrace Christianity today.

Coming to my question, brother, are you circumcised?

(May 11, 2014 at 5:02 pm)Lek Wrote:

(May 11, 2014 at 10:16 am)Brakeman Wrote: ..
I presume your version tows the line that you were one day touched by guilt and prayed to jesus to save you and that he told you in a magical elf voice in your head that he loved you and that he is going to save you from himself and your deserved punishment of hell.
..

..When I returned to the US I happened to get in with some friends who were Christians and they introduced me to the faith. It wasn't long after that I realized I wasn't going to get to heaven by my own means, so I put my faith in Christ to get me there. Since then I've been trying my best to follow what he taught, and over time, with the help of the Spirit it's getting better, but I wont't be perfect until I get to heaven.

So you've never heard gods voice? God has never spoken to you at all, and you just trust the stories and the other people who do claim to have conversations with god to decide if you are "saved" or not?

(May 11, 2014 at 6:43 pm)Ksa Wrote: Coming to my question, brother, are you circumcised?

That's a personal question. Why do you ask?

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(May 11, 2014 at 6:44 pm)Brakeman Wrote: So you've never heard gods voice? God has never spoken to you at all, and you just trust the stories and the other people who do claim to have conversations with god to decide if you are "saved" or not?

He never spoke English words to me. Most of his communication has been through the scriptures.