(April 27, 2010 at 1:52 pm)True Christian Wrote: Most of my points have been argued against, but can anyone argue that the Christ is not a fantastic role model ?

But did he actually exist?

(April 27, 2010 at 1:59 pm)darkwolf176 Wrote:

(April 27, 2010 at 1:52 pm)True Christian Wrote: Most of my points have been argued against, but can anyone argue that the Christ is not a fantastic role model ?

But did he actually exist?

And if so, was he actually the miracle performing son of god?

Quote:And if so, was he actually the miracle performing son of god?

And if he was how come no one mentioned it? Apollonius of Tyana was mentioned. Did he have a better press agent?

(April 27, 2010 at 1:52 pm)True Christian Wrote: I believe everyone has a chance of redemption, even after death, as long as the person is willing to accept this chance. I hope you will see and adhere to the message of the Christ, however there is no way for me to force you to believe. I can only hope

No thanks. I always had the possibility to "adhere to the message of christ" - I was even raised relatively catholic.
What you forget is that hell is far less frightening when you know that it doesn't exist!

(April 27, 2010 at 2:28 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:And if so, was he actually the miracle performing son of god?

And if he was how come no one mentioned it? Apollonius of Tyana was mentioned. Did he have a better press agent?

He wasnt mentionned because who could document his life except his disciples ? He only preached for 3 years before the Romans thought he was too much of a threat and crucified him.

Most of the people whose story we know today that lived at that time had personal historians. Jesus had none except for the Gospels. Jesus wasnt rich, he was humble.

I think atheists try too hard to destroy everything about religion. It is the presumption i was talking about, it seems you guys have as a first presumption that everything religious is wrong.

No, we simply refuse to believe something that can't be substantiated. What reason is there to believe the bible is at all historically accurate or non-fiction of any kind?

(April 27, 2010 at 2:48 pm)Atheist_named_Christian Wrote:

(April 27, 2010 at 1:52 pm)True Christian Wrote: I believe everyone has a chance of redemption, even after death, as long as the person is willing to accept this chance. I hope you will see and adhere to the message of the Christ, however there is no way for me to force you to believe. I can only hope

No thanks. I always had the possibility to "adhere to the message of christ" - I was even raised relatively catholic.
What you forget is that hell is far less frightening when you know that it doesn't exist!

You wont go to Hell by simply not believing in the Christ. You will stay in the Purgatory until you do. Dont get me wrong the Purgatory is a infinity of blank space, pretty much boredom eternal, so i wouldnt wish that to you either. Hell is for true sinners, people who knew what they did was wrong but still did it.

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On a side note, i would like to say that i really like debating my faith with non-believers. There is nothing healthier than having your faith questioned, and there is nothing more dangerous than only speaking with people who believe the same things you do.

Purgatory is a Roman Catholic belief. Are you Roman Catholic? They get the idea from this:

GotQuestions.org Wrote:The primary Scriptural passage Catholics point to for evidence of Purgatory is 1 Corinthians 3:15, which says, “If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.” The passage (1 Corinthians 3:12-15) is using an illustration of things going through fire as a description of believers’ works being judged. If our works are of good quality “gold, sliver, costly stones,” they will pass through the fire unharmed, and we will be rewarded for them. If our works are of poor quality “wood, hay, and straw,” they will be consumed by the fire, and there will be no reward. The passage does not say that believers pass through the fire, but rather that a believer’s works pass through the fire. 1 Corinthians 3:15 refers to the believer “escaping through the flames,” not “being cleansed by the flames.”

And the Catholic Church recently decided they were mistaken about that.

Other Christians believe:

GotQuestions.org Wrote:Purgatory, like many other Catholic dogmas, is based on a misunderstanding of the nature of Christ’s sacrifice. Catholics view the Mass / Eucharist as a re-presentation of Christ’s sacrifice because they fail to understand that Jesus’ once-for-all sacrifice was absolutely and perfectly sufficient (Hebrews 7:27). Catholics view meritorious works as contributing to salvation due to a failure to recognize that Jesus’ sacrificial payment has no need of additional “contribution” (Ephesians 2:8-9). Similarly, Purgatory is understood by Catholics as a place of cleansing in preparation for heaven because they do not recognize that because of Jesus’ sacrifice, we are already cleansed, declared righteous, forgiven, redeemed, reconciled, and sanctified.

The article those are from is Here.

(April 27, 2010 at 2:53 pm)True Christian Wrote: You wont go to Hell by simply not believing in the Christ. You will stay in the Purgatory until you do. Dont get me wrong the Purgatory is a infinity of blank space, pretty much boredom eternal, so i wouldnt wish that to you either. Hell is for true sinners, people who knew what they did was wrong but still did it.

Well, if all the other atheists hang out there as well, it is for sure a better place than earth. So I have chosen the right path already. thanks for confirming.

Quote: On a side note, i would like to say that i really like debating my faith with non-believers. There is nothing healthier than having your faith questioned, and there is nothing more dangerous than only speaking with people who believe the same things you do.

Fully agree. I just want to add, that this is also true in regard to ones attitude towards other things. As long as a reasonable discussion is possible one should always take the opportunity.

Quote:He wasnt mentionned because who could document his life except his disciples ? He only preached for 3 years before the Romans thought he was too much of a threat and crucified him.

If you can believe such abject nonsense then I don't understand why you can't believe in OT miracles. They are no sillier than what you profess.

You still haven't dealt with Matthew's zombies wandering around Jerusalem. Is that one that even you can't rationalize?