(May 18, 2014 at 12:39 pm)Lek Wrote:

(May 18, 2014 at 11:57 am)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: If you think for yourself then answer me this. What is more likely, the entire natural order of things was suspended or that a Jewish maiden told a lie to her husband?

You already know my answer to that question. Jesus was born to a virgin as was prophesied in the old testament. Let me ask you a couple questions. Was the universe created or has it always existed or, at least, did something always exist? Also, is there any end to what exists and what is beyond that?

Interesting, you claim to think for yourself but gave a standard piece of rhetoric. If you think for yourself like you claim I suggest you read up on that "prophecy". Now to answer your question, as far as I know about physics which isn't a lot I admit, the universe has always existed in one state or another. As for what's beyond I can't say for sure, the multi verse is a possibility, but in reality I don't know for sure. As for the end of the universe, it will most likely be a cold death by entropy. http://burro.astr.cwru.edu/stu/advanced/...death.html

(May 18, 2014 at 11:51 am)Lek Wrote: If we all interpret the bible the same, like a rule book, you call us sheep. If we think and interpret the bible as thinking individuals that means we can't get it together, and that means it's all wrong.

The problem is the dazzling way that you christians seem to do both at once; you all get together in little groups and get informed what is and isn't on your agenda, while simultaneously picking and choosing those parts of the bible you want to follow and discarding the others. None of you follow the complete message and yet you're all so totally sure that you've got it perfectly right and that anyone that disagrees isn't a true christian.

And then when these two facts are pointed out you completely miss the point of them.

(May 18, 2014 at 11:51 am)Lek Wrote: If we all interpret the bible the same, like a rule book, you call us sheep. If we think and interpret the bible as thinking individuals that means we can't get it together, and that means it's all wrong. The truth is God wants us to follow him, but to think and decide that for ourselves.

That's not why they call Christians sheep. Besides, is that how Christians operate? Interpreting the scriptures individually and coming to their own conclusions with no outside help? Because most of them claim to be guided by god using his holy spirit.

Mind you, your explanation sounds like the more reasonable one. I think it stands to reason that if Christians were being guided by god through the holy spirit, they would interpret scripture in a consistent and similar (if not identical) manner. So much so that it would be pretty easy to spot the "not True Christians™" out there. But indeed, it seems as if most Christians simply latch on to someone else's interpretation and follow along like... sheep.

(May 18, 2014 at 1:16 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: Interesting, you claim to think for yourself but gave a standard piece of rhetoric. If you think for yourself like you claim I suggest you read up on that "prophecy". Now to answer your question, as far as I know about physics which isn't a lot I admit, the universe has always existed in one state or another. As for what's beyond I can't say for sure, the multi verse is a possibility, but in reality I don't know for sure. As for the end of the universe, it will most likely be a cold death by entropy. http://burro.astr.cwru.edu/stu/advanced/...death.html

You believe the universe always existed in one state or another - like God. You have no scientific proof, but yet you believe and others just leave it open. Of course a multiverse is possible, but how far do these multiple universes extend? It they are the total of existence then they have no end. When I asked about the end of the universe I meant the boundary, but I didn't make that clear. If the universe it infinite, it would have no boundaries. I read the scriptures and I believe that they hold the answers to these questions. My life is also more fulfilled than when I was a non-believer. If I come across some better answers, then maybe I'll have to reconsider. If I die and go to that black non-existence, neither you nor I will care that I was wrong.

(May 18, 2014 at 4:16 pm)Lek Wrote:

(May 18, 2014 at 1:16 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: Interesting, you claim to think for yourself but gave a standard piece of rhetoric. If you think for yourself like you claim I suggest you read up on that "prophecy". Now to answer your question, as far as I know about physics which isn't a lot I admit, the universe has always existed in one state or another. As for what's beyond I can't say for sure, the multi verse is a possibility, but in reality I don't know for sure. As for the end of the universe, it will most likely be a cold death by entropy. http://burro.astr.cwru.edu/stu/advanced/...death.html

You believe the universe always existed in one state or another - like God. You have no scientific proof, but yet you believe and others just leave it open. Of course a multiverse is possible, but how far do these multiple universes extend? It they are the total of existence then they have no end. When I asked about the end of the universe I meant the boundary, but I didn't make that clear. If the universe it infinite, it would have no boundaries. I read the scriptures and I believe that they hold the answers to these questions. My life is also more fulfilled than when I was a non-believer. If I come across some better answers, then maybe I'll have to reconsider. If I die and go to that black non-existence, neither you nor I will care that I was wrong.

I'd be happy to call you on that one Lek, hope you don't mind the friendly call out.

How do you know your life is more fulfilled than if you were a non-believer? Are you a non believer? Have you been? If not I don't think that is at all fair to assume since the leading number of ex-christians now atheists say the complete opposite.

I have read the 'scriptures' as well even the ones removed, rewritten, and edited.

I never saw the answer? I don't think a book written by man, all those many years ago even at their prime had the understandings we have now, I will give you they had some mysteries, but our understanding has been ending the "god of the gap" theory which I believe applies here, we don't know the boundaries and the book does not say.

I fucking hate it when atheists fall for the "universe always existed vs came out of nothing". Don't let theists trap you in that bullshit argument. Science has theories competing both ways, but the top scientist Stephen Hawkins says "A GOD IS NOT REQUIRED".

Theists do not want to consider that "all this" is the product of a what, not a cognitive "who". QM isn't arguing a cognition as a starting point in any case.

(May 18, 2014 at 11:51 am)Lek Wrote:

(May 17, 2014 at 2:25 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Though the livestock typically prefers to lazily agree with the meaning given by the "shepherd," "pastor," or "priest" who guards over the herd, keeping watch out for the Devil, or people like us.

If we all interpret the bible the same, like a rule book, you call us sheep. If we think and interpret the bible as thinking individuals that means we can't get it together, and that means it's all wrong. The truth is God wants us to follow him, but to think and decide that for ourselves. I've decided on my own to follow him and you've decided not to. That's the way he made us. Sorry that I think for myself, not necessarily as the rest of the world thinks I should.

Let me guess, you believe that God the Father sent his Son as a human sacrifice for your sins. If you believe in the Gospel you'll go to heaven. In other words, very original!

(May 18, 2014 at 4:16 pm)Lek Wrote:

(May 18, 2014 at 1:16 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: Interesting, you claim to think for yourself but gave a standard piece of rhetoric. If you think for yourself like you claim I suggest you read up on that "prophecy". Now to answer your question, as far as I know about physics which isn't a lot I admit, the universe has always existed in one state or another. As for what's beyond I can't say for sure, the multi verse is a possibility, but in reality I don't know for sure. As for the end of the universe, it will most likely be a cold death by entropy. http://burro.astr.cwru.edu/stu/advanced/...death.html

You believe the universe always existed in one state or another - like God. You have no scientific proof, but yet you believe and others just leave it open. Of course a multiverse is possible, but how far do these multiple universes extend? It they are the total of existence then they have no end. When I asked about the end of the universe I meant the boundary, but I didn't make that clear. If the universe it infinite, it would have no boundaries. I read the scriptures and I believe that they hold the answers to these questions. My life is also more fulfilled than when I was a non-believer. If I come across some better answers, then maybe I'll have to reconsider. If I die and go to that black non-existence, neither you nor I will care that I was wrong.

Here is where I'm going to be honest with you. Science has little to do With my position on gods, bryond Some basic facts and the scientific method. Now I have a proposal, let's same for the sake of argument that we both there are God(s) and that they created the universe. How could you demonstrate to me that it was your God, the God described in the Bible and not Brahma, and the other gods described in the Vedas and many texts holy texts of the Hindu's?

(May 18, 2014 at 4:44 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I fucking hate it when atheists fall for the "universe always existed vs came out of nothing". Don't let theists trap you in that bullshit argument. Science has theories competing both ways, but the top scientist Stephen Hawkins says "A GOD IS NOT REQUIRED".

Theists do not want to consider that "all this" is the product of a what, not a cognitive "who". QM isn't arguing a cognition as a starting point in any case.

Stephen Hawkins has only his ideas on how the universe may have come about. I'm sure all theists are going to abandon their beliefs once they know that Stephen Hawkins said a god is not required.

(May 18, 2014 at 5:50 pm)Lek Wrote:

(May 18, 2014 at 4:44 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I fucking hate it when atheists fall for the "universe always existed vs came out of nothing". Don't let theists trap you in that bullshit argument. Science has theories competing both ways, but the top scientist Stephen Hawkins says "A GOD IS NOT REQUIRED".

Theists do not want to consider that "all this" is the product of a what, not a cognitive "who". QM isn't arguing a cognition as a starting point in any case.

Stephen Hawkins has only his ideas on how the universe may have come about. I'm sure all theists are going to abandon their beliefs once they know that Stephen Hawkins said a god is not required.

I hope not, what the hell does that guy know anyway. For shit sakes, he is in a wheel chair. (referencing intro again)

haha