Chuck and Zebo are on the money - we need to make democracy more representative and pragmatic.

At least zebo suggested an actionable solution.

I voted on the europeans. I added a none of the above option and crossed there.

(May 26, 2014 at 12:50 pm)Moros Synackaon Wrote: At least someone suggested an actionable solution, instead of playing ideological games about "freedom"...

Another sly dig at me there Moros?

You are an actual asshole.

(May 26, 2014 at 3:53 pm)Napoléon Wrote: Another sly dig at me there Moros?

You're right, it is inappropriate for little good reason. Removed.

(May 26, 2014 at 12:49 pm)Creed of Heresy Wrote: When I read the title of this thread, my first thought was "Wait, Fabrique Nationale won an election? How the fuck did THAT happen?"

I might be a gun nerd... ._.

But no, no, it's just another Kilic-rant about how everyone should homogenize and be close minded and continue to hold onto the past instead of living in the present and everyone should be racist and supremacist because violence and hatred and bigotry are terrific and breeds a bunch of nations hating each other and anyone not like them because that's going to be good for civilization and humanity as a whole, right?

Ho-hum, another day another dollar another waste of my time and eye-movements...

Whatever you say chief.
On the contrary, I am all for harmony between nations. But harmony can only be archived if all nations work towards the realization of their own national goals.
The left-oriented policies of the EU, have so far, only created anarchy, and the destruction of what the people in Europe deemed to be aspects of their culture and way of life.

As for democracy, democracy is just good business. Both for politicians, and voters.
Both politicians and voters are in it not for idealism, but for their personal agenda and profit.

---

I'd also say, that these elections show to me that people are not afraid of voting for a party that is "far-right" anymore.
The media portrayals have evidently not produced the desired effect.
The left had it coming. The other day, I heard that the radical-feminist group FEMEN called upon French women not to have sex with native Frenchmen, merely because FN advocated it, and said that French women should have sex with foreigners and give birth to more mixed babies to make France more cosmopolitan.
Don't know if this was intended as a joke, though.
If so, its really a bad one.

(May 26, 2014 at 7:33 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Whatever you say chief.
On the contrary, I am all for harmony between nations. But harmony can only be archived if all nations work towards the realization of their own national goals.
The left-oriented policies of the EU, have so far, only created anarchy, and the destruction of what the people in Europe deemed to be aspects of their culture and way of life.

And everyone's selfish national goals are going to be the furthering of their own agendas.

Did you learn nothing from the history Nazi Germany? How about the Soviet Union? How about human history through the ages?

Quote:As for democracy, democracy is just good business. Both for politicians, and voters.
Both politicians and voters are in it not for idealism, but for their personal agenda and profit.

No shit, Sherlock, it take you this long to figure out that human beings tend to have self-centered agendas? Yet you're talking about how we should focus on self-centered agendas on a national level, while bemoaning self-centered agendas on an individual one. Dude, you're almost as bipolar as I am.

Quote:I'd also say, that these elections show to me that people are not afraid of voting for a party that is "far-right" anymore.

Anymore? When have they EVER been afraid of voting for right-wing extremists? Those parties always get votes from the old, the brainwashed, and the mindless, no big surprise there.

It has nothing to do with ideologies, though, and you're an idealistic fool if you genuinely believe it so. All it takes for people to vote for the wrong guy is for the wrong guy to convince them that the guy in charge of them is a fuckup. How does he do that? Well all he needs is his opponent to not be utterly perfect in every single way, and as long as he puts the magnifying glass on that problem close enough, it'll look big enough to convince those with terrible vision that it's truly a huge problem, while the rest of us with glasses, contacts, or just good vision in general can actually see the distortion the magnifying glass causes to the original image.

Might I recommend coke-bottle glasses? You seem to need them.

Quote:And everyone's selfish national goals are going to be the furthering of their own agendas.

Did you learn nothing from the history Nazi Germany? How about the Soviet Union? How about human history through the ages?

Well, what I learned from Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union are very similar. They both show that a well-motivated people can actually rise from apathy and bring forth great accomplishments.
Nazi Germany has been too expansionistic for its own good, and suffered as a result. Hitler on the other hand, had bad judgement. I'd say that he'd have made a good public figure and ideologue, but he was too blinded by his emotions.
So was Stalin.
The faith of a nation should never be determined by the words coming from the lips of a single man.
Even though I do praise qualities like loyalty, I'd say that everyone should be the loyal to their nation first, before showing loyalty to their leader.

Quote:No shit, Sherlock, it take you this long to figure out that human beings tend to have self-centered agendas? Yet you're talking about how we should focus on self-centered agendas on a national level, while bemoaning self-centered agendas on an individual one. Dude, you're almost as bipolar as I am.

Well, nations cannot be compared to individuals. Individuals come and go, and they are easily replaced. A nation on the other hand, is not bound by its current population. It encompasses the previous and the future generations.
It is an entity that needs to be protected and cherished for the sake of all the individuals that constitute a part of it.
It needs to be self-centered, but this is actually productive, rather than counterproductive.

Quote:Anymore? When have they EVER been afraid of voting for right-wing extremists?

Well, the wrong portrayals of the far-right and I personally think that far-right is a wrong term, I personally prefer only "right", as I think so-called centre-parties do not have any ideologies as to be in this spectrum, and the general shitty rightist scene in Europe with the skinheads and all, have made the common man abstain from voting for "far-right" politicians.

Far-rightists have until now have not been viewed as a part of contemporary society. They were a sort of a subculture, at least in most parts of Europe, but with Hungary, for example, people who adhere to "far-right" ideologies actually come from the contemporary society itself. They are not skin-heads, they are people who dress in traditional clothing, that actually display the characteristics of a nation that they cherish, that actually uphold the customs that they propagate.
The skinhead scene on the other hand, which has been associated with the far-right in Europe, did not make a good impression on the working man. He was a troublemaker, he dressed funny, he listened to loud oi music, he frequently got into fights, he became involved in petty crime.
He was not a man of education, he did not attend university.
But a new strain of far-right is finally appearing.
He is neatly dressed, has a degree, has a job, is well versed in his ideology, and the ideology of his/her opponents, and is actually united under a true political scene.

Quote:Those parties always get votes from the old, the brainwashed, and the mindless, no big surprise there.

Oh, you're wrong there, my friend.

Quote:It has nothing to do with ideologies, though, and you're an idealistic fool if you genuinely believe it so. All it takes for people to vote for the wrong guy is for the wrong guy to convince them that the guy in charge of them is a fuckup.

Well, that's usually the way the centre-parties have done it so far.
We are on the other hand, are not bound by short term events. I believe, that all centre-parties will eventually fuck up, and they will blame eachother instead of seeing the futility of their ways.
In all, politics is a dirty game. You don't usually know the "wrong guy" until he does something that appears wrong to you.

Quote: Well all he needs is his opponent to not be utterly perfect in every single way, and as long as he puts the magnifying glass on that problem close enough, it'll look big enough to convince those with terrible vision that it's truly a huge problem, while the rest of us with glasses, contacts, or just good vision in general can actually see the distortion the magnifying glass causes to the original image.

Well, that's what politicians do. All politicians do this.
This is why we advocate a strong national consciousness. A person that lacks national consciousness is easily deceived. This is mainly because he does not see beyond. He does not look into the future, nor takes reference from the past. He lives for the moment. And so do today's mainstream political parties.