French Presidential elections

[pocaracas]

yeah, yeah, yeah... most of you guys don't care.
But, if things go wrong, France will have a referendum on leaving the EU and then they could go the way of Brexit.... to Frexit.
If Frexit happens, the EU disappears, almost certainly.
Europe's unification gets a setback of decades, or maybe even centuries.
Honestly, I don't think that's the way to move humanity forward, so last Sunday's first round of elections in France seem to hint in the right way.

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/04/surprise...-expected/

The votes are mostly counted in the first round of the French Presidential election. The Conversation

Marine Le Pen of the French far right National Front has received 21.5 percent of vote. Emmanuel Macron, an independent candidate running on the slogan of En Marche! – which translates roughly to “Let’s March” – is slightly ahead with 23.9 percent.

Both candidates will proceed to the run-off round on May 7.

The winner of that round will be the next President of France.

There are many unusual features of this first round vote, but let’s start with the fact that the French polls accurately predicted the outcome.

There was just a little quote from that article that I thought was stupendous!
Talking about Marine Le Pen, they say "Comparisons to Trump make good press but are in many ways off the mark. Le Pen has a law degree, speaks coherently and has well thought out programs whether one agrees with them or not. She also explicitly believes in working with Vladimir Putin."

[Isis]

"Europe's unification"

So you believe in a United States of Europe then?

I don't think Le Pen will win but that's just me.

[GUBU]

There was just a little quote from that article that I thought was stupendous!
Talking about Marine Le Pen, they say "Comparisons to Trump make good press but are in many ways off the mark. Le Pen has a law degree, speaks coherently and has well thought out programs whether one agrees with them or not. She also explicitly believes in working with Vladimir Putin."  

And then you start listening to her rallies, and the picture clarifies. She starts looking like a female version of Hitler, or to be more accurate, a Jospehine Goebbels.

[pocaracas]

"Europe's unification"

So you believe in a United States of Europe then?

I don't think Le Pen will win but that's just me.

It's called EU: European Union

[Isis]

It's called EU: European Union

I am well aware of what it is called, thank you very much. Europe doesn't need to be "unified" - every country is an independent, sovereign state and it should remain that way. You didn't quite answer my question though.

[pocaracas]

It's called EU: European Union

I am well aware of what it is called, thank you very much. Europe doesn't need to be "unified" - every country is an independent, sovereign state and it should remain that way. You didn't quite answer my question though.

Yeah, yeah... the old us vs them tribal thing that humans still carry around in their genes...



I like the concept of the global village, where each person can go anywhere on Earth and live and work, without needing to deal with certain regions' claim on the person... where each region does retain it's individual qualities, most of them borne out of geography and climate, and can also easily interact with other regions for trade.
One centralized governmental body would make it oh so much easier to properly implement environmentally sound regulations, everywhere... no need to worry that the neighbor is going to be producing cheaper stuff because they don't have to answer to some regulatory body.
And a myriad other things like tax havens, exchange rates, etc etc etc etc....
Sure, some things would be more complex... but overall I think things would be better for the whole of humanity.

[Isis]

Yeah, yeah... the old us vs them tribal thing that humans still carry around in their genes...

Jesus.

I support immigration. I want to move country myself one day but I don't think the EU should be working towards the United States of Europe. They have got enough power over member states as it is.

I like the concept of the global village, where each person can go anywhere on Earth and live and work, without needing to deal with certain regions' claim on the person... where each region does retain it's individual qualities, most of them borne out of geography and climate, and can also easily interact with other regions for trade.

One centralized governmental body would make it oh so much easier to properly implement environmentally sound regulations, everywhere... no need to worry that the neighbor is going to be producing cheaper stuff because they don't have to answer to some regulatory body.
And a myriad other things like tax havens, exchange rates, etc etc etc etc....
Sure, some things would be more complex... but overall I think things would be better for the whole of humanity.

Cool, but you're too idealistic and setting yourself up for some pretty major disappointment. A one world government with open borders everywhere is never going to happen.

Trust me, I would just love to be able to enter the US, Canada and Japan and start living and working there without needing to go through immigration systems but it just wouldn't work in practice. Borders are not tribalistic, you can be welcoming to immigrants but also want to keep the troublemakers out.

[vorlon13]

I don't see the French EU issue being a binary choice; stay or go.

How about the EU cut WAY back on the bloat, administrative redundancy, waste, administrative bloat, overhead, redundancy, administrative idiocy, redundancy, waste, and administrative bloat ???

A smooth running, efficient and taut EU might even get Britain back in the fold. If the EU was managed well enough leaving becomes unthinkable for the members, then the members won't think about leaving.


Sheeesh!! Is this so fucking hard to noodle out ??

[pocaracas]

Yeah, yeah... the old us vs them tribal thing that humans still carry around in their genes...

Jesus.

I support immigration. I want to move country myself one day but I don't think the EU should be working towards the United States of Europe. They have got enough power over member states as it is.

I like the concept of the global village, where each person can go anywhere on Earth and live and work, without needing to deal with certain regions' claim on the person... where each region does retain it's individual qualities, most of them borne out of geography and climate, and can also easily interact with other regions for trade.

One centralized governmental body would make it oh so much easier to properly implement environmentally sound regulations, everywhere... no need to worry that the neighbor is going to be producing cheaper stuff because they don't have to answer to some regulatory body.
And a myriad other things like tax havens, exchange rates, etc etc etc etc....
Sure, some things would be more complex... but overall I think things would be better for the whole of humanity.

Cool, but you're too idealistic and setting yourself up for some pretty major disappointment. A one world government with open borders everywhere is never going to happen.

Trust me, I would just love to be able to enter the US or Japan and start working without needing to go through immigration systems but it just wouldn't work. Borders are not tribalistic.

Why wouldn't it work?
It's been working fine in the EU for decades.

I'm well aware that it won't happen within my lifetime... most likely, not even within my grandchildren's lifetime... but it would represent a step in the right direction for mankind.

Btw, it's not the borders that are tribalistic, it's the countries!

---

I don't see the French EU issue being a binary choice; stay or go.

How about the EU cut WAY back on the bloat, administrative redundancy, waste, administrative bloat, overhead, redundancy, administrative idiocy, redundancy, waste, and  administrative bloat  ???

A smooth running, efficient and taut EU might even get Britain back in the fold.  If the EU was managed well enough leaving becomes unthinkable for the members, then the members won't think about leaving.


Sheeesh!!  Is this so fucking hard to noodle out ??

HAHA, haven't you heard of Administratium?
https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/administ.htm

The heaviest element known to science was recently discovered by investigators at a major U.S. research university. The element, tentatively named administratium, has no protons or electrons and thus has an atomic number of 0. However, it does have one neutron, 125 assistant neutrons, 75 vice neutrons and 111 assistant vice neutrons, which gives it an atomic mass of 312. These 312 particles are held together by a force that involves the continuous exchange of meson-like particles called morons.

Since it has no electrons, administratium is inert. However, it can be detected chemically as it impedes every reaction it comes in contact with. According to the discoverers, a minute amount of administratium causes one reaction to take over four days to complete when it would have normally occurred in less than a second.

Administratium has a normal half-life of approximately three years, at which time it does not decay, but instead undergoes a reorganization in which assistant neutrons, vice neutrons and assistant vice neutrons exchange places. Some studies have shown that the atomic mass actually increases after each reorganization.

Research at other laboratories indicates that administratium occurs naturally in the atmosphere. It tends to concentrate at certain points such as government agencies, large corporations, and universities. It can usually be found in the newest, best appointed, and best maintained buildings.

Scientists point out that administratium is known to be toxic at any level of concentration and can easily destroy any productive reaction where it is allowed to accumulate. Attempts are being made to determine how administratium can be controlled to prevent irreversible damage, but results to date are not promising.

[Isis]

In a sense, yes, it has been working well for the EU, that's great and all, but that's only a fairly small amount of countries. We're talking worldwide open borders here and that is totally unrealistic. People aren't going to sit back and watch their country's being stripped of their sovereignty completely.

Before you say it, that isn't tribalistic and anyone who thinks so is a fool. As I said, you can be welcoming to immigrants but also support borders. Borders help keep out the troublemakers while still letting the law-abiding, hard-working folk in.

Let's just say, hypothetically, we were close to establishing a world government, what about the countries who don't want to join? Are you going to invade and annex them? Sanction them until they bow down and become part of your project? You can bet your ass many countries won't.