Our ability as a species to be cruel or compassionate is in us, in our evolution. Not the religions or nations or politics humans invent. Labels are simply the human excuse to claim moral superiority to justify control of resources.

Our species was around long before any of our modern religions. Our modern religions 10s of thousands of years from now will die or morph into something else. Eventually we will go extinct like the other 99% of now extinct prior life in evolutionary history. Then our planet will die as well as our sun and the universe will continue with absolutely no record of our existence.

(May 31, 2014 at 7:57 pm)Chas Wrote: Every insurance plan that was in effect when the ACA took effect was grandfathered.

The insurance companies fucked people, not the ACA.

If Obamacare had not taken effect, the insurance companies would not have cancelled most of the policies. For employee plans, once your current collective bargaining agreement runs out it's a goner.

(May 31, 2014 at 8:36 pm)Lek Wrote:

(May 31, 2014 at 7:57 pm)Chas Wrote: Every insurance plan that was in effect when the ACA took effect was grandfathered.

The insurance companies fucked people, not the ACA.

If Obamacare had not taken effect, the insurance companies would not have cancelled most of the policies. For employee plans, once your current collective bargaining agreement runs out it's a goner.

There was no reason for them to cancel those plans but pure greed. They dishonestly used the ACA as cover.

(May 31, 2014 at 5:20 pm)Lek Wrote:

(May 31, 2014 at 4:55 pm)Brakeman Wrote: A comprehensive plan that meets federal minimums is not "inferior" by any standards, they are superior. You were dishonest, you lied.

I can get a plan that covers my needs well and I'm seeing a doctor that I like. I am then forced to drop that plan and purchase a plan that covers ob/gyn and other things that I don't need or want. It costs me more and I can't see the doctor that I like anymore. Which plan is superior to me? So I need the government to tell me what I need in a health insurance plan? I don't want the same people who have run social security and medicare broke to decide what insurance I need. I hope they don't run Obamacare like they've run the VA hospitals. By the way, ob/gyn is one of the areas that must be covered by a plan under Obamacare.

Liar! The idea is of course that everyone has to pay their share and have a minimum level of coverage. Thus when some dickhead that only has a little bitty bit of coverage, such as you, they get the benefit of being covered without turnaway at the hospitals, they would get the benefit of a lowered insurance market, without paying their fair share. No, if an individual can pay, they must. You don't get to freeload. You have to carry a minimum. The requirement that everyone participate is not taking away a "good" policy. Women make up over half of the population so deal with it. There were not many, if any, comprehensive policies that covered everything but OB/gyn and you didn't have one and you won't be able to find an example of one. You are just being dishonest by twisting in the wind trying to save your prejudice. You lied when You said, and I quote, "Others who are working hard have lost the insurance they liked and are forced to pay more for inferior coverage."

No person you can name had that happen to them. No one. Thus you are a slimy christian jesus liar. And you do not have the integrity to come clean.

In the insurance marketplace you can buy whatever insurance from whatever company you like if you want to make sure you keep the same doctor. What you can't do is skip out of your fair share of insurance costs by trying to get a partial plan to gamble with.

Your lying makes baby jesus catch gonorrhea!

Somewhere back there, I believe Lek (forgive me if I'm wrong) said that Jesus said that government taxation to support programs for the poor is theft. That's one bible quote I'd like to see.

The trouble is that Christians don't take Jesus's command to help the poor as a command. For them, it appears to be more of a public relations ploy, a chance to claim superiority because of their charity efforts (which atheists are assumed never to do).

I do support, strongly, public taxation for charitable purposes, because unlike many Christians, I think it is something that, as a society, we ought to be doing. before Social Security, under the church model, the poverty rate for the elderly was 50%. Afterwards, with the government program, it became 10%. The Great Society cut the poverty rate in half. This alone makes the effort worth it.

And for the record, I would be, in Romney's terms, a maker. I pay a considerable amount of my income in Federal taxes, and while I don't agree with all the spending our Congress does, I don't whine when I pay it.

(June 1, 2014 at 1:34 am)Brakeman Wrote: No person you can name had that happen to them. No one. Thus you are a slimy christian jesus liar. And you do not have the integrity to come clean.

In the insurance marketplace you can buy whatever insurance from whatever company you like if you want to make sure you keep the same doctor. What you can't do is skip out of your fair share of insurance costs by trying to get a partial plan to gamble with.

Your lying makes baby jesus catch gonorrhea!

Check out the following: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/12/20/21...elled.html where the Obama administration admits that 500,000 people who had insurance before will not have it on 1/1/14 because of Obamacare. That's not considering the number of people who still have insurance, but must pay more for it. By the way, calling people names only makes you look worse.

(May 31, 2014 at 8:36 pm)Lek Wrote:

(May 31, 2014 at 7:57 pm)Chas Wrote: Every insurance plan that was in effect when the ACA took effect was grandfathered.

The insurance companies fucked people, not the ACA.

If Obamacare had not taken effect, the insurance companies would not have cancelled most of the policies. For employee plans, once your current collective bargaining agreement runs out it's a goner.

You make good points. We really should throw ourselves on the mercy of the insurance companies. If we don't piss them off by trying to regulate them they're sure to bring down prices, insure everyone and do their damnedest to maximize the quality of healthcare in the U.S.[/sarcasm]

(June 1, 2014 at 2:54 pm)Geoguy Wrote: Somewhere back there, I believe Lek (forgive me if I'm wrong) said that Jesus said that government taxation to support programs for the poor is theft. That's one bible quote I'd like to see.

The trouble is that Christians don't take Jesus's command to help the poor as a command. For them, it appears to be more of a public relations ploy, a chance to claim superiority because of their charity efforts (which atheists are assumed never to do).

I do support, strongly, public taxation for charitable purposes, because unlike many Christians, I think it is something that, as a society, we ought to be doing. before Social Security, under the church model, the poverty rate for the elderly was 50%. Afterwards, with the government program, it became 10%. The Great Society cut the poverty rate in half. This alone makes the effort worth it.

And for the record, I would be, in Romney's terms, a maker. I pay a considerable amount of my income in Federal taxes, and while I don't agree with all the spending our Congress does, I don't whine when I pay it.

The bible says "do not steal". I agree that that paying taxes for services for the common good is a good thing and Jesus did say we should pay our taxes. What is wrong is taking money from one group of people to redistribute it to another group. Social security did help lower the poverty rate for seniors. Of course, I don't know what is going to happen when the system goes broke. The problem now is the group with the highest poverty rate is the younger working age group. Before social security families took care of their aging parents and relatives. Seniors were poor because they had little income, but most were taken care of by family. I believe our welfare system has led to the destruction of families and created a permanent welfare class. Show me how Johnson's "war on poverty" has done anything but increase the national debt. Compare our poverty rate now to the rate in 1964 and see if it's worth the trillions upon trillions of dollars poured into black holes. I still have to listen to the statistics about how many children go to bed hungry every night. Extreme amounts of the money contributed by taxpayers to these programs have been wasted, misappropriated, taken by fraud or just plain stolen and, yes, spent on stupid wars. Seeing how the US government has handled these programs, I'll voluntarily give my money to most anybody but the US government to help the needy.

(June 1, 2014 at 3:56 pm)Lek Wrote:

(June 1, 2014 at 1:34 am)Brakeman Wrote: No person you can name had that happen to them. No one. Thus you are a slimy christian jesus liar. And you do not have the integrity to come clean.

In the insurance marketplace you can buy whatever insurance from whatever company you like if you want to make sure you keep the same doctor. What you can't do is skip out of your fair share of insurance costs by trying to get a partial plan to gamble with.

Your lying makes baby jesus catch gonorrhea!

Check out the following: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/12/20/21...elled.html where the Obama administration admits that 500,000 people who had insurance before will not have it on 1/1/14 because of Obamacare. That's not considering the number of people who still have insurance, but must pay more for it. By the way, calling people names only makes you look worse.

You continue to spread hate and lies. The insurance companies did this, not the ACA.

You are one ignorant, brainwashed dolt.

(June 1, 2014 at 5:06 pm)Chas Wrote:

(June 1, 2014 at 3:56 pm)Lek Wrote: Check out the following: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/12/20/21...elled.html where the Obama administration admits that 500,000 people who had insurance before will not have it on 1/1/14 because of Obamacare. That's not considering the number of people who still have insurance, but must pay more for it. By the way, calling people names only makes you look worse.

You continue to spread hate and lies. The insurance companies did this, not the ACA.

You are one ignorant, brainwashed dolt.

Apparently Lek didn't even read the opening lines of the article:

Quote:Miracle On Main Street in Stockton, Calif., had his health insurance cancelled because his policy was not in compliance of the Affordable Care Act. King, shown in his shop Wednesday, Nov. 13, 2013, will pay $68 more a month for insurance purchased on the California exchange. (Genevieve Ross/MCT)

This is exactly why we can't trust insurance companies.

They canceled him over a $68 increase.