I see Rev's been gone for a few days.

Bumping this thread so as to see if Rev can answer my question from a few posts back.

Waiting with tingling appendages!

(June 18, 2014 at 10:20 pm)Rampant.A.I. Wrote:

(June 14, 2014 at 3:24 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: The proof that Christ is a changed life of not just me but millions of other born again believers who placed their trust in Him.

He accidentally capitalize "him".

(June 18, 2014 at 8:11 am)Confused Ape Wrote:

(June 18, 2014 at 1:31 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: As I stated before, John Wycliffe and his buddies wrote the Bible. It didn't exist as such before then. And they put in a lot of jokes to indicate that it was all B.S.

Definition of The Torah from Judaism 101.

Quote:The word "Torah" is a tricky one, because it can mean different things in different contexts. In its most limited sense, "Torah" refers to the Five Books of Moses: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. But the word "torah" can also be used to refer to the entire Jewish bible (the body of scripture known to non-Jews as the Old Testament and to Jews as the Tanakh or Written Torah), or in its broadest sense, to the whole body of Jewish law and teachings.

If Wycliffe and his buddies wrote the Bible why did the Jews adopt the Old Testament for their religion? What religion did they have before Wycliffe's time?

The Jews placed great value on the Babylonian Talmud.

(June 25, 2014 at 4:26 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: The Jews placed great value on the Babylonian Talmud.

Talmud

Quote:The Talmud (/ˈtɑːlmʊd, -məd, ˈtæl-/; Hebrew: תַּלְמוּד talmūd "instruction, learning", from a root lmd "teach, study") is a central text of Rabbinic Judaism. It is also traditionally referred to as Shas (ש״ס), a Hebrew abbreviation of shisha sedarim, the "six orders". The term "Talmud" normally refers to the Babylonian Talmud, though there is also an earlier collection known as the Jerusalem Talmud.

Originally, Jewish scholarship was oral. Rabbis expounded and debated the Torah (the written Torah expressed in the Hebrew Bible) and discussed the Tanakh without the benefit of written works (other than the Biblical books themselves), though some may have made private notes (megillot setarim), for example of court decisions. However, this situation changed drastically, mainly as the result of the destruction of the Jewish commonwealth and the Second Temple in the year 70 CE and the consequent upheaval of Jewish social and legal norms.

Torah

Quote: In its most limited sense, "Torah" refers to the Five Books of Moses: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. But the word "torah" can also be used to refer to the entire Jewish bible (the body of scripture known to non-Jews as the Old Testament and to Jews as the Tanakh or Written Torah), or in its broadest sense, to the whole body of Jewish law and teachings

The books which are referred to as the Old Testament existed long before John Wycliffe was born. Here's an article on the Times Of Israel website - Hebrew profs weigh in on ‘oldest Torah’

Quote:12th-century scroll was discovered in an Italian university library after being mistakenly catalogued in 1889.

The find isn’t the oldest Torah text in the world: the Leningrad and the Aleppo bibles — both of them Hebrew codexes, or books — pre-date the Bologna scroll by more than 200 years. But this is the oldest Torah scroll of the Pentateuch, the five books of Moses, according to Mauro Perani, a professor of Hebrew in the University of Bologna’s cultural heritage department.

John Wycliffe lived in the 14th century so it would be difficult for him to write books which existed before he was born. He was just a translator but -

Relation To The English Bible

Quote:Some members of the nobility possessed the Bible in French, and some portions of the Bible had been translated into English as early as the seventh century under the auspices of the Catholic Church.

PS: Wycliffe

Quote:Wycliffe was also an early advocate for translation of the Bible into the common language. He completed his translation directly from the Vulgate into vernacular English in the year 1382, now known as Wycliffe's Bible.[4

Vulgate

Quote:The Vulgate is a late fourth-century Latin translation of the Bible that became, during the 16th century, the Catholic Church's officially promulgated Latin version of the Bible.

The translation was largely the work of St. Jerome, who, in 382, was commissioned by Pope Damasus I to revise the Vetus Latina ("Old Latin") collection of Biblical texts in Latin then in use by the Church. Once published, it was widely adopted, eventually eclipsed the Vetus Latina and, by the 13th century, was known as the "versio vulgata" [1] (the "version commonly-used") or, more simply, as the "vulgata" ("Vulgate").

It's too bad that you don't realize that the English wrote the Vulgate as a gift to the Pope.

(June 18, 2014 at 8:51 am)Revelation777 Wrote:

(June 14, 2014 at 3:48 pm)Creed of Heresy Wrote: The problem there is you said "missionaries."

You speak as if that's a good thing. Exploiting the needy, the sick, the poor, the starving by giving them what they need to live and then telling them it's all because of the god YOU believe in that they're being helped, and that they need to accept this god or they'll suffer even in death.

Yeah. Really fucking generous.

Actually that's called coercion. Yeah, your "generous" missionaries are being a bunch of subversive slimeball coercive exploitative thugs, dangling food over the head of those suffering the agony of starvation, and placing it in their hand while pushing your book into the other.

Religion loves to prey on the weak and suffering. If you guys were really doing it for charity, you'd keep your fucking traps shut about your religious bullshit when you're helping these people, and simply let them know what you believe and nothing else. Instead you push your bullshit on them, and what else are they going to think? Are they, in their starving agony, really going to think for themselves? Are you really enlightening them, bringing them into the fold of your lord? Or are you simply snatching people into the shadows before they can begin to see light?

Those of secular charities are true charities. Those of missions are little more than manipulative scumbags, serving their own agenda and cloaking it with the trappings of generosity.

Unbelievable.

We are commissioned to share the gospel with everyone

ANd you share just the parts of the Bible that you consider to be of value and ignore the rest of it that proves it is NONSENSE

Do you inform people that there was NEVER a person named Jesus who lived at the supposed time of the christ - ?

Thank goodness the English guys who wrote the Bible didn't use traditional Middle East Jewish names for the main characters. Their fairy tale flows much better with names like Jesus, Adam & Eve, Peter, Paul, Mary, James, John, Mark and Luke instead of names like Diotrephes, Aristarchus, Zenas, Trophimus, Onesiphorus, and Eubulus.

Well, I'm guessing Rev is off researching all the apologetic and christer bullshit sites to dig up his "evidence" for a global flood. I'm sure his "arguments" for the flood will be as specious as all his prior "arguments" were.

Personally, I hope the little ass-hat comes back soon. He's usually good for some laughs.

Don't know if Bill Cosby is Christian. But his Noah is a born skeptic. Unlike the rest of us though, Noah experiences pretty compelling evidence.