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(June 12, 2014 at 10:22 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: How so, Rev? How is your set of rigorous, ritualistic beliefs in a deity and an afterlife not religion?
And, moreover, are you saying that your particular brand of belief is not responsible for evil in this world? A lot of it?
My definition of religion is man's effort in trying to have a relationship with God. Having a relationship with Christ because He sought me out and I opened my heart to Him is what I believe in. There is a great gulf between a person who proclaims to be a Christian and a genuine one.
You might be interested to know that 'genuine' Christians prohibited women from voting at one point in American history, and most owned slaves.
After all, 'murica was built on 'Christian values.' And it's alllllll in your beloved Bible. The condoning of slavery, women seen as second under men, and even chastising and outcasting homosexuals can all be found in the Bible.
June 18, 2014 at 12:15 am (This post was last modified: June 18, 2014 at 12:16 am by Mudhammam.)
(June 17, 2014 at 6:49 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:
(June 17, 2014 at 5:58 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Codexsinaiticus.org
I don't understand your claim. You can't be so ignorant as to think the Bible was originally written in the 14th century. Thousands of fragments, in different languages, some nearly complete, existed for a thousand years before Wycliffe took the books long established as the "official" Canon and translated them into English (from the Vulgate, to be precise).
So atheists are now defending the Bible? Is that a miracle or what?
Actually it's more like defending facts of a historical timeline that happen to relate to the Bible.
Quote:The Vulgate didn't gain any status until the 16th Century, well after Wycliffe wrote the Bible. Sure, there were assorted manuscripts floating around but none of them were original.
Of fucking course they weren't originals.
Quote:As an example, in American history there's a ton of assorted material about slavery and the Civil War. But none of it became the book Gone with the Wind until Margaret Mitchell wrote her fairy tale about it in 1936. Did Mitchell lie about the basic facts, such as slavery, the burning of Atlanta, the Civil War? No. But did she invent characters to bring life to those basic facts? Yes.
Was Gone With The Wind a story that existed for a thousand years already in other languages? No. It wasn't. So:
Quote:That's exactly what Wycliffe did.
Wrong.
Quote: He took the bones and then put flesh on them. He (and his buddies) wrote the Bible. It didn't exist as an unit before then. And because it's basically a work of fiction it contains clear evidence that the writers included to show that they were just playing a joke.
.
Wrong again. And stupid. If his version was drastically different than the manuscripts from the 3rd and 4th centuries, that still wouldn't effect modern versions. Why not? BECAUSE WE HAVE THE 3RD AND 4TH CENTURY MANUSCRIPTS. This is not a defense of the Bible. It is a defense of using your brain and common sense.
Quote:Atheists are always bitching about the nature of God and why the story is BS but they never think about why they think that. Wycliffe and his buddies wrote it that way. Consider the Garden of Eden and Adam & Eve. Supposedly Adam was made out of dirt, cavorted around with the animals, got lonely, woke up missing a rib but had a wife, Eve got conned by a talking snake, and now everyone is saddled with original sin. They overlook the fact that the story says that the Garden of Eden was just around the corner from Assyria and Cush. So did the God character make the Assyrian Empire when he made Adam from dirt? There are countless things like that in the Bible. It's a work of fiction just like Gone with the Wind. And John Wycliffe and his buddies wrote it.
Now go believe Ben Hur.
Yes. A work of fiction. Not created by John Wycliffe. Now run along and do some fucking research before you start spouting more misinformed nonsense.
June 18, 2014 at 12:28 am (This post was last modified: June 18, 2014 at 12:58 am by Revelation777.)
(June 12, 2014 at 11:59 am)RobbyPants Wrote:
(June 11, 2014 at 10:50 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Dearest Atheist Friends,
Jesus warned us of how things would be at the end of the age. We are now living in that time and things are going to continue to grow worse and worse. I believe that many of you will experience the Tribulation Period within your lifetime.
Paul thought the second coming was going to happen during his lifetime, nearly 2,000 years ago. There have continually been people for that whole 2,000 years that believed it would happen in their life time, and they've all been wrong (well, technically the people who are still alive aren't wrong yet).
I'm not too worried about it.
Though God often used Paul as his mouthpiece and hand to write the Holy Scripture, Paul was a sinful man saved by grace. If He thought Christ would return in his lifetime obviously that was not an inspired thought.
(June 13, 2014 at 12:06 am)GalacticBusDriver Wrote:
(June 12, 2014 at 8:06 am)Revelation777 Wrote: "religion" and born again Christ followers are very different
No they aren't. They're all fucking, bat-shit crazy.
(June 12, 2014 at 8:12 am)Revelation777 Wrote: Let me see...Steve Hawkins or God...hmmmm....God
Hwy, dumb-ass. We have evidence of Stephen Hawking.
(June 12, 2014 at 8:16 am)Revelation777 Wrote: this time will be fire. get in the ark!
No it won't. Geez, you gullible little retards will believe fucking anything.
(June 12, 2014 at 10:51 am)Revelation777 Wrote: The ark is a picture of Christ. I wish, if I could, grab you'll by the wrist and drag you into the ark and save you from the coming destruction, but I can't. All I can do is plead you enter before the door closes.
I can't speak for others, but putting your hands on me would be the last mistake you'd ever make.
Rev, if all you're gonna do is preach, would you please fuck off. No-one here is interested.
You would thank me later if I dragged you in the ark.
(June 13, 2014 at 12:20 am)GalacticBusDriver Wrote:
(June 12, 2014 at 12:12 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: I'm no troll.
According to you! Fuck off troll!
ouch
(June 13, 2014 at 4:55 am)One Above All Wrote:
(June 12, 2014 at 11:15 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: When it comes to pass I hope you survived and your view of the Holy Scriptures lead to your salvation.
Why would something that's holey (by the way, you misspelled "holey") save me? It's full of holes, isn't it? Like Swiss cheese, only not as tasty. And save me from what? Do you believe I fear mythology or lies? Even if it were true, what makes you think I fear death and/or Death?
Because of God's warning to those who don't believe.
(June 13, 2014 at 5:17 am)Tonus Wrote:
(June 12, 2014 at 11:15 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: I would say Satan is the second most intelligent force in the universe. Way more clever and intelligent then we. He deceives the whole world in rejecting the Truth. Obviously, he easily accomplished his goal on this board.
Except for you, of course. He's just not clever enough for you.
He had me duped too until Jesus opened my eyes.
(June 13, 2014 at 7:23 am)Stimbo Wrote: Rev, would you please address, or at least acknowledge, my question from page 9? I'll reprint it so you don't have to dig for it:
In what way am I deceived, and who (if anyone) has been doing the deceiving? To what purpose?
Thank you. Oh, and if you could formulate your reply in your own words and not copypasta a storybook, that'd be great.
Dear Stimbo,
You obviously are very intelligent and have mastered the English language when compared to me. However, if you believe that God is not real and that Jesus never existed then you are deceived. The purpose of Satan is that because He has been condemned he wants to bring down as many with him as possible. I am pretty sure you will think I am crazy and reject this but this is my answer to your question. Good day.
(June 13, 2014 at 9:18 am)JesusHChrist Wrote:
(June 12, 2014 at 11:54 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: If you think God is scared of man that is laughable. When Jesus returns what are evil men gonna do, shoot a nuclear bomb at Him? That is a joke.
All we'll need to do, is roll up in our Chariots of Iron and nail that sumbitch to a cross again. Worked before. Will work again. That's science bitch!
Send his ass packing back up to heaven. Go on! Git!
He came the first time as a humble servant, second time as a reigning king. No one noticed Him the first time, everyone will see Him the second.
Rev 6:15 Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains,
Rev 6:16 calling to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb,
Rev 6:17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?"
(June 13, 2014 at 10:57 am)RobbyPants Wrote:
(June 12, 2014 at 11:15 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: I would say Satan is the second most intelligent force in the universe. Way more clever and intelligent then we. He deceives the whole world in rejecting the Truth. Obviously, he easily accomplished his goal on this board.
Yet, ironically, you can't prove, or even know that God is telling you the truth. From a logical perspective, it's entirely possible they're both lying, or that God is lying and Satan is telling the truth. You only believe God because you want to. Remember the notion that the victor gets to write the history books. If you assume God and Satan exist and believe God makes the claims said in the Bible, God hasn't demonstrated honesty; he's demonstrated victory and poisoning the well against his opposition. You're told to distrust Satan before he can even plead his case.
And really, you have no reason to trust God. If you believe he's real, you would be right to fear him, but not to trust him. We are told not to kill, yet God kills all the time. Apologists excuse this away by saying that those rules apply to us or that God has no moral imperative not to kill us. Similarly, we're told not to lie. The apologetics are clear: those rules don't apply to God and he has no moral imperative not to lie to us. Sure, it's possible he's telling the truth, but he would only do so if he wants to, and you're relying on trusting the will and motivations of an admitted child-killer.
I'm not saying you should start trying to converse with Satan (he's probably not real, and that'd make you a crazy person), but you should totally question why you place your trust where you do without question, and why you make excuses for someone who refuses to let you question his actions.
I totally trust in Him and in what God said. He has shown Himself to be trustworthy, loving, and honest. I believe Him 100%. If you had a relationship with Him you would understand completely.
(June 13, 2014 at 1:05 pm)Stimbo Wrote: He hasn't even acknowledged mine yet, and I've asked him twice. I thought he liked me.
I could weep over you.
(June 13, 2014 at 7:22 pm)ThomM Wrote:
(June 11, 2014 at 10:50 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Dearest Atheist Friends,
Jesus warned us of how things would be at the end of the age. We are now living in that time and things are going to continue to grow worse and worse. I believe that many of you will experience the Tribulation Period within your lifetime. Trust me you don't want to be there. Please repent of your sins and place your faith in Christ before it is too late. Enter into Ark before the rains come.
Your Concerned Christian Friend,
Rev777
What christ ?
There is no proof that the christ EVER lived - there is NO mention of him in ANY document that we have from his supposed time - none at all. I have as much reason to believe that Harry Potter saved the world - than the christ ever existed.
So - you may claim that the fairy tales of the bible say things - but to claim they were actually said by the christ - has not been established. In fact - you cannot even prove who wrote the bible books themselves. For example - writing analysis shows that the book of John was written by at least 3 and possibly four different persons - prove who those four are!
As far as the Ark - that is just another fairy tale of Judaism that is not true - just as your religion is NOT true as well. The bible is a bunch of fairy tales - many of which are PROVEN not to be true - so quoting from fairy tales gets you nowhere. Prove your statement using documents outside of a religious created tome - there are lots of other similar books that don't agree with you.
AND we HAVE been give NO REASON to trust you - whoever you are.
People have been claiming the end of time - the flood - etc - for More years than the bible implies the earth has existed. And to date - all of those people have died without the claimed result.
We Christians believe Jesus always was, not created, took on human flesh apx 2,000 years ago. One of these days it will come to pass where the end is near. Many Christians believe it is soon because of the prophesy being fulfilled of God gathering together Israel again.
(June 14, 2014 at 7:28 am)ThomM Wrote:
(June 14, 2014 at 4:54 am)Irrational Wrote: Sarcasm? Or you're being serious?
When you consider how the ministers of the world cut and paste parts of the bible and ignore others like the plague - and then claim WE take things out of context. The fact is - the bible is nothing more than a collection of fictional stories from unknown authors - some of which could not have been written within 200 years of the supposed time of the christ.
Example - the word "Rabbi" was not used until after the second century - yet it appears in the bible - HOW? Because the bible is nonsense
Sorry to hear about your view of the Words that you will ultimately have to be measured by.
(June 14, 2014 at 9:53 am)Esquilax Wrote:
(June 14, 2014 at 9:41 am)Revelation777 Wrote: God is not capable of sin. He is holy and righteous...it is His Character. He is not like man and man is no threat to Him nor ever will be. He is eternal. He will destroy His enemies at His return and no bomb or army can do anything about it.
Again, unless god was lying when he was describing his character. How would you know?
You're just relying on a presupposition, here, and it's not based on anything other than what you want to be true.
How do you know things about your father?
(June 14, 2014 at 10:19 am)Stimbo Wrote:
(June 14, 2014 at 9:53 am)Revelation777 Wrote: Jesus willfully went to the cross for our sake. Vampires are make believe.
100% pure unadulterated doublethink, in the finest Orwellian sense!
Rev, you truly are the gift that keeps on giving! Ever thought of doing standup?
Rather be known as a modern day ambassador of the Lord sent to the atheistforum board with a message of hope and salvation.
(June 14, 2014 at 10:23 am)Stimbo Wrote:
(June 14, 2014 at 9:41 am)Revelation777 Wrote: No you are not correct sir. The flood took place, even there are those who reject the Noah account accept the fact that there was a world-wide flood.
You know what any flood, global or otherwise, would leave behind? I'll give you a clue: it starts with ”e”. And ends with "vidence".
You know what there isn't for your flood? Want another clue?
Perhaps a future discussion
(June 14, 2014 at 11:21 am)Esquilax Wrote:
(June 14, 2014 at 11:13 am)Revelation777 Wrote: Kim Jun doesn't always tell the truth because he is a man. Kim jun is not inherently good because he is a man. I know because the Bible tells us so. Bible tells us that man is a liar and God is Truth. God is good and man is a sinner. If you were comparing man to man then your questions apply. You can't compare God to man in character.
So you're just never going to let go of your presuppositions, even for the sake of an argument?
Dear ESQ - you call them presuppositions I call them TRUTH.
(June 14, 2014 at 11:28 am)Stimbo Wrote:
(June 14, 2014 at 11:13 am)Revelation777 Wrote: I know because the Bible tells us so. Bible tells us that man is a liar and God is Truth.
Your fervor does not compensate to the least bit for the flimsiness of your belief. Expressing more fervor in a flimsy belief only lowers your credibility, had there been room for it to be lowered. Buttress your belief with the sort of lines of evidence which have proven its efficacy in other endeavors, or shut up.
June 18, 2014 at 1:31 am (This post was last modified: June 18, 2014 at 1:55 am by Wyrd of Gawd.)
(June 17, 2014 at 8:02 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Awesome piece of lost info! Mind telling us where you're getting this from?
By the way... what can you say about the Vedas and the Kama Sutra?
Now you believe in a blue god?
All gods are imaginary. Not one god of any kind has ever done anything godly since the first con man concocted it to help him control his more superstitious buddies and to enrich himself with money and power.
Con men have been writing B.S. since they could draw pictures and write down lies.
When the first god of any kind shows up in all its reputed glory and do the things it's supposedly capable of doing be sure to let me know about it. Then it can give me its power.
(June 17, 2014 at 8:30 pm)Irrational Wrote:
Quote:Which part of the ethnocentric religious fairy tale don't you believe in?
What does this have to do with the unwarranted assertion that the Bible was first written in the 14th century?
I suppose you think Moses wrote it directly from God's lips.
As I stated before, John Wycliffe and his buddies wrote the Bible. It didn't exist as such before then. And they put in a lot of jokes to indicate that it was all B.S.
Rev, I still haven't forgotten! You think you can just disappear for a few days and we would all forget?
You made a very large claim that there was scientific evidence for a world wide flood. You provided no evidence. Now, either present the 'scientific evidence' or admit that you were wrong and retract your claim.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
(June 17, 2014 at 6:49 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: So atheists are now defending the Bible? Is that a miracle or what?
Actually it's more like defending facts of a historical timeline that happen to relate to the Bible.
Quote:The Vulgate didn't gain any status until the 16th Century, well after Wycliffe wrote the Bible. Sure, there were assorted manuscripts floating around but none of them were original.
Of fucking course they weren't originals.
Quote:As an example, in American history there's a ton of assorted material about slavery and the Civil War. But none of it became the book Gone with the Wind until Margaret Mitchell wrote her fairy tale about it in 1936. Did Mitchell lie about the basic facts, such as slavery, the burning of Atlanta, the Civil War? No. But did she invent characters to bring life to those basic facts? Yes.
Was Gone With The Wind a story that existed for a thousand years already in other languages? No. It wasn't. So:
Quote:That's exactly what Wycliffe did.
Wrong.
Quote: He took the bones and then put flesh on them. He (and his buddies) wrote the Bible. It didn't exist as an unit before then. And because it's basically a work of fiction it contains clear evidence that the writers included to show that they were just playing a joke.
.
Wrong again. And stupid. If his version was drastically different than the manuscripts from the 3rd and 4th centuries, that still wouldn't effect modern versions. Why not? BECAUSE WE HAVE THE 3RD AND 4TH CENTURY MANUSCRIPTS. This is not a defense of the Bible. It is a defense of using your brain and common sense.
Quote:Atheists are always bitching about the nature of God and why the story is BS but they never think about why they think that. Wycliffe and his buddies wrote it that way. Consider the Garden of Eden and Adam & Eve. Supposedly Adam was made out of dirt, cavorted around with the animals, got lonely, woke up missing a rib but had a wife, Eve got conned by a talking snake, and now everyone is saddled with original sin. They overlook the fact that the story says that the Garden of Eden was just around the corner from Assyria and Cush. So did the God character make the Assyrian Empire when he made Adam from dirt? There are countless things like that in the Bible. It's a work of fiction just like Gone with the Wind. And John Wycliffe and his buddies wrote it.
Now go believe Ben Hur.
Yes. A work of fiction. Not created by John Wycliffe. Now run along and do some fucking research before you start spouting more misinformed nonsense.
The Pope approves of your spirited defense. It's too bad that you don't seem to know that the English wrote the Latin Vulgate as a gift to the Pope. So even if Wycliffe used the Vulgate as source material the Bible was just a fabrication by the English.
(June 17, 2014 at 8:02 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Awesome piece of lost info! Mind telling us where you're getting this from?
By the way... what can you say about the Vedas and the Kama Sutra?
Now you believe in a blue god?
Does the color of a god make a difference?
(ps: no belief in any god, here.... I'm just trying to figure out where your info comes from and why you're so focused on christianity)
(June 18, 2014 at 1:31 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: All gods are imaginary. Not one god of any kind has ever done anything godly since the first con man concocted it to help him control his more superstitious buddies and to enrich himself with money and power.
Con men have been writing B.S. since they could draw pictures and write down lies.
When the first god of any kind shows up in all its reputed glory and do the things it's supposedly capable of doing be sure to let me know about it. Then it can give me its power.
Some are cons, yes.... some are truly convinced that their dreams (or other psychological events) represent reality.... the reality of the other world... the world of the dead... the world that came before and will be here after everything on this Earth. Both are dangerous in their own way... both have unleashed irrational beliefs upon this world...
