Can anybody reading this even fathom in their wildest imaginations an earth being worse off by not being blessed by a "real" god. It's like what Stimbo so eloquently put it:
It's "just" like there "IS" no god!

LOl, I can imagine the earth being much worse off if it were blessed by a real god.

(July 2, 2014 at 12:47 am)Rhythm Wrote: LOl, I can imagine the earth being much worse off if it were blessed by a real god.

Only if you lust over those hairy breasts!

(July 1, 2014 at 1:43 pm)ronedee Wrote:

(July 1, 2014 at 12:26 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote: If he owes us nothing, then why did he save your mother from dying from a heart attack?

You don't even know what my prayer was! What I said to God! And it wasn't about "saving" my mother. That was the added benefit to my resolve!

And my mom died 2 years later, anyway! But it was the best 2 years of our relationship! We got a lot of things talked about, and figured out! I do miss her.

What that incident was, was a moment of Faith. I have enough Faith in God, that I know He will do what is necessary.

I don't know the exact reasons "why" for anything. But I know the reason "what".

I know "what" happens when I trust God. And I know what happens when men are involved.

I pray for those "babies" and a lot of other things too! But I also know that I, alone, have no control over anything in this world! The reason those babies are dying is man-made! Not God!

So, is God ignoring the babies? Or is He ignoring what man has done to make them that way?

What "IF" God did indeed come down from Heaven and helped those dying babies? And ONLY the dying babies. What would happen?

How would men "use" that to their advantage? How would they scheme to steal the power for themselves. You know, and I know that "some"... a lot of people would actually put children in harms way to test God!

Its human nature! that's why its set up this way. No one wins but God. No one. We are either on His team... or the alternative! Simple.

You didn't answer my question. Why did your god save your mother? Why doesn't he save starving children?

(July 2, 2014 at 7:37 am)Bad Wolf Wrote: You didn't answer my question. Why did your god save your mother? Why doesn't he save starving children?

I been asking that for 3 pages. I don't think he understands that those two are part of the same question. He keeps answering them separately.

(July 1, 2014 at 3:29 pm)ronedee Wrote: What a bunch of hogwash!

You have no argument against God. You point a finger, but the other four point back at yourself, and those who would agree with that crap.

Since when was fiat dismissal an argument?

(July 2, 2014 at 7:37 am)Bad Wolf Wrote: You didn't answer my question. Why did your god save your mother? Why doesn't he save starving children?

I already told you & smoothe over and over again: "I don't know?" And, I said that we are here to help "babies" for the man-made reasons that they need help!

But you have selective hearing/seeing. My answers make too much sense... and none of you pinheads have one lick of common sense.

I'm not God. He gets to make the rules. You get to do whatever you want... aint that great? WTF are you complaining about?

God doesn't cramp your move at all! Ever!

AGAIN....The debate here was about Faith being irrational.

I made the point over and over again that IF indeed Faith works (for me)... whats irrational about it?

What "is" irrational is all of you guys discreditting my experiences w/ rethoric! I have no agenda here but to support my fellow Christians, and defend our God.

You've (ALL) tried every which way to change the subject. That is what you are best at! Moving the target. Injecting lies into my experiences, for entertainment and ridicule. Because you have no answers. Only questions! So you lash out at people who do have answers and results! It infuriates you! You mope around in a dark closet, leading each other into more darkness.. blind guides!

Faith is real. Whether I credit it to God, or you credit it to a hotdog. Whether its devine intervention, or some lucky rabbits foot! Whether its real or perceived.

Faith works! And I say it is designed that way by God. He wants you to do whateverTF you want! Believe.....think whatever you want to think!

The only fault you can find in Him is that He hasn't revealed Himself to YOU!

The supreme head of the universe hasn't taken the time to acknowledge a bunch of fowl mouthed, selfish, finger pointing know-it-all's.

I wonder why?

(July 2, 2014 at 11:28 am)ronedee Wrote: I already told you & smoothe over and over again: "I don't know?" And, I said that we are here to help "babies" for the man-made reasons that they need help!

But you have selective hearing/seeing. My answers make too much sense... and none of you pinheads have one lick of common sense.

I don't think that we're actually -here to do that-...but I think it's a great idea since we're here already anyway. There's no "sense" in that though, because it's an empty statement - there's no reason to accept it as true, we either do or we don't- "sense" isn't required or invoked. I agree with you, in spirit. Mull that over.

Quote:I'm not God. He gets to make the rules. You get to do whatever you want... aint that great? WTF are you complaining about?

The quality, function, and efficacy of the rules........ Mostly, I would be complaining precisely -because- I don;t get to make them. If I got to make them, I'd just change them. How about you, do the "rules" ever strike you as possibly..just maybe..not very well thought out?

Quote:God doesn't cramp your move at all! Ever!

AGAIN....The debate here was about Faith being irrational.

I made the point over and over again that IF indeed Faith works (for me)... whats irrational about it?

If faith works - absolutely. Trouble is, you haven't shown faith working, or even that it is possible to determine whether or not it is working at a fundamental level.

Quote:What "is" not irrational is all of you guys discreditting my irrational premises, assumptions, and conclusions about my experiences w/ reason and rethoric ! I have no agenda here but to support my fellow Christians, and defend our God.

B mine...fixed that for you.

Quote:You've (ALL) tried every which way to change the subject. That is what you are best at! Moving the target. Injecting lies into my experiences, for entertainment and ridicule.

Have I?.................

Hidden for brevity, and also because it's just an absurd rant- clam down..clam down

Quote:The only fault you can find in Him is that He hasn't revealed Himself to YOU!

LOL< okay, now look, if your god never want's to "reveal himself" to me, that's fine by me. I'm not even interested in assigning faults to the character. We all have faults - it's a wash. I just think that your god ought to pull his weight around here - because I;m down here in the mud doing more than your god (as per your explanations anyway) is capable of/willing to do./ It's not some fault I want to lay at your gods feet - it's just an observation.

Quote:The supreme head of the universe hasn't taken the time to acknowledge a bunch of fowl mouthed, selfish, finger pointing know-it-all's.

That he created the entire universe for -and set in lordship over.....that was the best of his creation and his favorite little hobby - that he interfered with for ages...annihilating and or subsidizing this or that tribe........whose very existence he sustains by magical force.........

Quote:I wonder why?

That would be a damned good question...care to suggest an answer?

(July 2, 2014 at 11:28 am)ronedee Wrote: I already told you & smoothe over and over again: "I don't know?" And, I said that we are here to help "babies" for the man-made reasons that they need help!

But while some of the reasons the "babies" are in trouble are man made, many of them aren't: climate, natural disaster, disease, etc. And it would be good if people helped. But people weren't made to help other people. The point is that prayer won't do them any good. Prayer seems to work remarkably better in first world countries where humans do more of the work for god.

Your god plan leads to some strange statements about aide to our fellow man. You said just a couple pages back that it didn't matter when or how the babies died.

(July 2, 2014 at 11:28 am)ronedee Wrote: The great equalizer is death. No one escapes it. Does it really matter when, where or how or who? No. what matters is that "it will" happen.

And I repeat that where, when, and how we die matters very much.

(July 2, 2014 at 11:28 am)ronedee Wrote: But you have selective hearing/seeing. My answers make too much sense... and none of you pinheads have one lick of common sense.

I'm not God. He gets to make the rules. You get to do whatever you want... aint that great? WTF are you complaining about?

God doesn't cramp your move at all! Ever!

What doesn't make sense about your answers is that you presuppose both god and that you know what his rules are.

(July 2, 2014 at 11:28 am)ronedee Wrote: AGAIN....The debate here was about Faith being irrational.

I made the point over and over again that IF indeed Faith works (for me)... whats irrational about it?

Would I believe in purple flying monkeys works for me be a rational statement? Your faith is irrational because you do not have evidence for your beliefs. None of the ways in which you say faith works for you appear to be anything more than false positives. You chalk all the good things in life to god, and the bad ones to man. That's irrational.

(July 2, 2014 at 11:28 am)ronedee Wrote: What "is" irrational is all of you guys discreditting my experiences w/ rethoric! I have no agenda here but to support my fellow Christians, and defend our God.

Once again, you are on an atheist forum. What exactly did you expect to happen. That you'd say, but I feel god in my heart and then everyone would say ahh, you've got to honor her feelings?

The point is not that you don't have those feelings. I'm very sure you do. It's just that I see no reason to accept that they come from god. And presuming that they do is an act of faith. It's also irrational given what we know about people's power to delude themselves.

(July 2, 2014 at 11:28 am)ronedee Wrote: You've (ALL) tried every which way to change the subject. That is what you are best at! Moving the target. Injecting lies into my experiences, for entertainment and ridicule. Because you have no answers. Only questions! So you lash out at people who do have answers and results! It infuriates you! You mope around in a dark closet, leading each other into more darkness.. blind guides!

A blind man with questions about what is in front of him is better than a blind man who thinks he can see. I don't have all the answers, but I don't think slapping the label "god" on all the questions answers a darned thing.

(July 2, 2014 at 11:28 am)ronedee Wrote: Faith is real. Whether I credit it to God, or you credit it to a hotdog. Whether its devine intervention, or some lucky rabbits foot! Whether its real or perceived.

Hold the phone. What the heck do you mean? Can you have faith without having it in something?

(July 2, 2014 at 11:28 am)ronedee Wrote: Faith works! And I say it is designed that way by God. He wants you to do whateverTF you want! Believe.....think whatever you want to think!

The only fault you can find in Him is that He hasn't revealed Himself to YOU!

Actually I can find lots of faults with the Christian god as portrayed in the Bible. The Old Testament god is a nasty piece of work. The New Testament god is only marginally better. I'd love eternal (or a least a substantially longer life---though eternal life might actually be hell), but other than that, I'm not enthused by your god.

(July 2, 2014 at 11:28 am)ronedee Wrote: The supreme head of the universe hasn't taken the time to acknowledge a bunch of fowl mouthed, selfish, finger pointing know-it-all's.

I wonder why?

Perhaps because there isn't a supreme head of the universe?

Now could you take a deep breath and explain why it is selfish or foul mouthed to point out that I think you have a false belief system? You came to this forum specifically to tell atheists that their belief system is false. Right?

(July 2, 2014 at 11:28 am)ronedee Wrote: But you have selective hearing/seeing. My answers make too much sense... and none of you pinheads have one lick of common sense.

Ohhh okay, THAT'S it.

Quote:I'm not God. He gets to make the rules. You get to do whatever you want... aint that great? WTF are you complaining about?

Thank you for your humble admission that you're not God. I don't think it took any of us by surprise, however. So God made rules and then imparted them to you, ronedee, using miracles to confirm his supernatural hand, and now it's your duty to inform us. Is that about right? You really don't realize how stupid you sound, do you?

Quote:God doesn't cramp your move at all! Ever!

Likewise.

Quote:AGAIN....The debate here was about Faith being irrational.

I made the point over and over again that IF indeed Faith works (for me)... whats irrational about it?

Faith doesn't work for you, though. You don't have special powers. Events happen via natural processes and in your blind arrogance you call some of them "miracles" and envision a genie who is intervening just for you, a common tendency of an inflated ego.

Quote:What "is" irrational is all of you guys discreditting my experiences w/ rethoric! I have no agenda here but to support my fellow Christians, and defend our God.

No one is discrediting your experiences. We're discrediting your unjustified and delusional interpretations of said experiences.

Quote:You've (ALL) tried every which way to change the subject. That is what you are best at! Moving the target. Injecting lies into my experiences, for entertainment and ridicule. Because you have no answers. Only questions! So you lash out at people who do have answers and results! It infuriates you! You mope around in a dark closet, leading each other into more darkness.. blind guides!

Nope. Try again.

Quote:Faith is real. Whether I credit it to God, or you credit it to a hotdog. Whether its devine intervention, or some lucky rabbits foot! Whether its real or perceived.

Yes, faith is real...like hope is real...in your mind. That's all. No special powers are bestowed upon you or the events in your life because you have faith. Again, that's your ignorance talking.

Quote:Faith works! And I say it is designed that way by God. He wants you to do whateverTF you want! Believe.....think whatever you want to think!

How about you share your winning lottery tickets with us then?

Quote:The only fault you can find in Him is that He hasn't revealed Himself to YOU!

The supreme head of the universe hasn't taken the time to acknowledge a bunch of fowl mouthed, selfish, finger pointing know-it-all's.

I wonder why?

Good question. Is he scurred?