Yes, because just knowing the timeline makes it all so true. You seriously buy into all this, A Theist? It would certainly explain why you have such a hard on for sending the Israelis money our taxpayer money.

(July 13, 2014 at 12:50 am)Bad Writer Wrote: Yes, because just knowing the timeline makes it all so true. You seriously buy into all this, A Theist? It would certainly explain why you have such a hard on for sending the Israelis money our taxpayer money.

Has nothing to do with what I believe. Israel is our strongest ally in that region. I object to sending money to the countries and people who hate us and who are harboring terrorist groups like Hamas in their neighborhoods. That's why I would support cutting off all aid, our taxpayer money, to the palestinians.

You misunderstand. I don't support sending any of those groups out there our money. I'm fine with our two nations being allies, but it's hard to forget that their reasons for being there are purely religious. Sending them money validates their claims of the divine and prolongs a juvenile conflict that should not be happening in the first place by keeping them in place.

It's all about the oil. And maintaining the industries necessary to wage war. Most of the pittance we spend on foreign aid is used to buy American built armaments which maintain jobs in congressional districts.

Neither. Unless this stupid idea of religious nationalism by either side is scrapped and replaced with secular pluralism, religion as Hitchens put it, will be the poison that does not allow for peace.

I cannot support Palestine considering what it would set up if given a state, even though I agree that Israel is the bully. Religious tribalism is cause, and it is absolute bullshit to claim otherwise.

Fuck a Jewish state. Fuck an Islamic state. It makes me just as sick when Christians claim America is a "Christian Nation". Niether's boarders or religions were around 200,000 ago during the early era of our species.

This is nothing but "My sky hero can beat up your sky hero"

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If Palestine under it's current leadership got everything it wanted do not try to lie to me that they would protect religious and political pluralism. What kind of rights would Christians or gays or atheists have in such a state? Would girls/women be allowed to chose their own paths or even which religion they belong to?

Israel should not be a "Jewish state" anymore than "Jesus" is written in the U.S. Constitution. I also do not like that they have a gang symbol on their national flag. That would be like if the American flag had a cross on it.

As Hitchens put it "The parties of God" are the poison pill preventing peace.

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My attitude having seen this crap constantly since I was a kid in , my 47 years. Right now fuck them both.

Religious tribalism is the base for the conflicts in the Middle East but our involvement is strictly financial. Oil and the war machine necessary to obtain it.

(July 13, 2014 at 12:24 pm)bberryhill0 Wrote: Religious tribalism is the base for the conflicts in the Middle East but our involvement is strictly financial. Oil and the war machine necessary to obtain it.

Israel is not mineral or oil rich. That region is fought over strictly for stupid religious reasons. It does however, allow the fuel industry invested by all three religions to be a distraction.

The locals fight for religious reasons. The rest of the world fights for oil. But the religious fighting is also about who controls the oil revenue. Israel doesn't have oil but they're right next to it and they have nuclear weapons and a world class air force that we provide. We don't do this for religious reasons.

(July 13, 2014 at 1:10 pm)bberryhill0 Wrote: The locals fight for religious reasons. The rest of the world fights for oil. But the religious fighting is also about who controls the oil revenue. Israel doesn't have oil but they're right next to it and they have nuclear weapons and a world class air force that we provide. We don't do this for religious reasons.

BULLSHIT

Jews after WW2 were not thinking about oil when wanting a home. Christains who supported them also were not advocating a home for resource reasons.

The powers that be and even the citizens of Israel do not say "Jewish state" for nothing.

Islamic majority in Palestine, both leaders and citizens do not shout "Allah fuckbar" if they didn't believe in Allah.

You want to take the power away from the fuel industry and power mongers from all sides, then you have to remove religion as the distraction and poison it is.

IT IS ABOUT RELIGION and I am fucking tired of people denying that. It is really a fight over which god gave who that land.

You have to go back further to the Ottoman Empire. The boundaries were redrawn to benefit the colonial powers. Money always trumps religion. But yes, religion needs to be removed from the equation. Let the religious zealots draw their own boundaries. However that changes the dynamics of oil. God put our oil under their sand so we have to stay involved. It's the Christian thing to do. God gave us dominion over that oil so we must do God's will despite the savages quibbling over where they will live. We are God's chosen people.