(July 13, 2014 at 3:09 pm)OceanWave Wrote: The proof is in the world aroud you. How everything happens in sequence, everything is perfect, the circumstances for life to form on this earth happening is less than 1 to the 10th billionth power.

This is like the water in a pothole looking up and saying: This hole fits me absolutely. Were it any different, I wouldn't fit in it. Therefore god created my pothole. But obviously, the water conformed to hole, not the other way around.

(July 13, 2014 at 3:24 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

(July 13, 2014 at 10:38 am)OceanWave Wrote: Very silly post. Muslims have explained countless times those actions aren't related to Islam.

In fact you can look at the primary source, the Quran and it will give you the answer about killing innocents. The knowledge is there, you just have to read it.

Way to pass the buck, as if it's my responsibility to sift through your holy book to prove what Islam truly is. You're so upset that the west demonizes Islam, but when you get the chance to show what you think Islam truly is(remember, you came to us), you suddenly don't care enough to put any effort into it.

You're just proving my point that Islam's problem isn't the West's portrayal, but it's the moderates that blame the West instead of the asshole terrorists. In fact, you mentioning the West's coverage but not the terrorists makes me think that you're not actually that bothered by all of the killing in the name of Islam.

lol young fellow, you've watched too many drama movies. I'm not upset about anything anybody says about Islam the reason is because the Holy Quran unchanged and available for anybody to read. Anybody who remains ignorant deserves to remain ignorant as they placed themselves in ignorance with only their decision

(July 13, 2014 at 3:49 pm)OceanWave Wrote:

(July 13, 2014 at 3:24 pm)Faith No More Wrote: Way to pass the buck, as if it's my responsibility to sift through your holy book to prove what Islam truly is. You're so upset that the west demonizes Islam, but when you get the chance to show what you think Islam truly is(remember, you came to us), you suddenly don't care enough to put any effort into it.

You're just proving my point that Islam's problem isn't the West's portrayal, but it's the moderates that blame the West instead of the asshole terrorists. In fact, you mentioning the West's coverage but not the terrorists makes me think that you're not actually that bothered by all of the killing in the name of Islam.

lol young fellow, you've watched too many drama movies. I'm not upset about anything anybody says about Islam the reason is because the Holy Quran unchanged and available for anybody to read. Anybody who remains ignorant deserves to remain ignorant as they placed themselves in ignorance with only their decision

Yet you still don't address the arguments put to you.

(July 13, 2014 at 4:06 pm)Beccs Wrote:

(July 13, 2014 at 3:49 pm)OceanWave Wrote: lol young fellow, you've watched too many drama movies. I'm not upset about anything anybody says about Islam the reason is because the Holy Quran unchanged and available for anybody to read. Anybody who remains ignorant deserves to remain ignorant as they placed themselves in ignorance with only their decision

Yet you still don't address the arguments put to you.

I did, it's likely you've missed a page.

(July 13, 2014 at 1:52 am)OceanWave Wrote: Islam is the most logical path with all beliefs practical and implement able within society.

Islam is the most beautiful because the morals, virtues it exemplifies even secular students of morals and ethics admit it as the standard of morality in humans life.

I ask all atheists here to

1. worship only Allah.
2. Live with peace, kindness, respect of others
3. Don't attack anybody first, only use self defense as the Quran states
4. Give to the poor and orphans
5. Ask me any questions regarding Islam

It's the true path and when you are on it your life will improve mentally and possibly materialistically as well

It seems illogical to me that an all powerful creator of a universe would communicate with all man kind through an Arabic book.

Also the books texts look very much like they were just made up by Muhammad, it's filled with local concerns. Some of the concerns in the quran are talking about an uncle who Muhammad didn't like definitely going to hell.

It's like if a man called George came to me and said "Right I've got a book straight from god addressing the entire world" Then I read a chapter and it says "Georges uncle who used to throw rocks at George is going right to hell, those rocks that he used to throw will be chained around his neck". And the book was written in Georges dialect using localized idioms I would assume it wasn't from god and the book was from George.

The quran does talk a lot about fighting but the verses I suppose can be interpreted as only being in defense, in actual circumstances of war I don't know how well these verses would hold up, if I did become a Muslim I also wonder which Muslim group do I begin fighting for? There's a lot of Muslims fighting and being fought out there, which ones do I begin to defend? What about the Muslim groups who are fighting each other?

(July 13, 2014 at 4:31 pm)paulpablo Wrote:

(July 13, 2014 at 1:52 am)OceanWave Wrote: Islam is the most logical path with all beliefs practical and implement able within society.

Islam is the most beautiful because the morals, virtues it exemplifies even secular students of morals and ethics admit it as the standard of morality in humans life.

I ask all atheists here to

1. worship only Allah.
2. Live with peace, kindness, respect of others
3. Don't attack anybody first, only use self defense as the Quran states
4. Give to the poor and orphans
5. Ask me any questions regarding Islam

It's the true path and when you are on it your life will improve mentally and possibly materialistically as well

It seems illogical to me that an all powerful creator of a universe would communicate with all man kind through an Arabic book.

Also the books texts look very much like they were just made up by Muhammad, it's filled with local concerns. Some of the concerns in the quran are talking about an uncle who Muhammad didn't like definitely going to hell.

It's like if a man called George came to me and said "Right I've got a book straight from god addressing the entire world" Then I read a chapter and it says "Georges uncle who used to throw rocks at George is going right to hell, those rocks that he used to throw will be chained around his neck". And the book was written in Georges dialect using localized idioms I would assume it wasn't from god and the book was from George.

The quran does talk a lot about fighting but the verses I suppose can be interpreted as only being in defense, in actual circumstances of war I don't know how well these verses would hold up, if I did become a Muslim I also wonder which Muslim group do I begin fighting for? There's a lot of Muslims fighting and being fought out there, which ones do I begin to defend? What about the Muslim groups who are fighting each other?

There's nothing about an uncle going to hell of Prophet Muhammad peace and blessings be upon him and his family.

(July 13, 2014 at 4:12 pm)OceanWave Wrote:

(July 13, 2014 at 4:06 pm)Beccs Wrote: Yet you still don't address the arguments put to you.

I did, it's likely you've missed a page.

No we didn't.

You, "Allah exists because the Koran says so"

Us, "So? That is called circular reasoning. Other people of other religions quote their books too".

You, "No no really it is true"

Us, "Big fucking deal, you are not the only religious person on this planet, nor the only god claim nor the only holy book".

Point being, WE DON'T GIVE A FUCK. You have as much evidence as anyone else with other god claims and other ancient comic books. Your god claim nor your holy book are special.

We didn't miss anything. You however have no evidence for your fictional sky hero.

(July 13, 2014 at 4:34 pm)OceanWave Wrote:

(July 13, 2014 at 4:31 pm)paulpablo Wrote: It seems illogical to me that an all powerful creator of a universe would communicate with all man kind through an Arabic book.

Also the books texts look very much like they were just made up by Muhammad, it's filled with local concerns. Some of the concerns in the quran are talking about an uncle who Muhammad didn't like definitely going to hell.

It's like if a man called George came to me and said "Right I've got a book straight from god addressing the entire world" Then I read a chapter and it says "Georges uncle who used to throw rocks at George is going right to hell, those rocks that he used to throw will be chained around his neck". And the book was written in Georges dialect using localized idioms I would assume it wasn't from god and the book was from George.

The quran does talk a lot about fighting but the verses I suppose can be interpreted as only being in defense, in actual circumstances of war I don't know how well these verses would hold up, if I did become a Muslim I also wonder which Muslim group do I begin fighting for? There's a lot of Muslims fighting and being fought out there, which ones do I begin to defend? What about the Muslim groups who are fighting each other?

There's nothing about an uncle going to hell of Prophet Muhammad peace and blessings be upon him and his family.

The verse about Abu Lahab.

May the hands of Abu Lahab be ruined, and ruined is he.

His wealth will not avail him or that which he gained.

He will [enter to] burn in a Fire of [blazing] flame

And his wife [as well] - the carrier of firewood.

Around her neck is a rope of [twisted] fiber.

---

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ab%C5%AB_Lahab

(July 13, 2014 at 4:37 pm)paulpablo Wrote:

(July 13, 2014 at 4:34 pm)OceanWave Wrote: There's nothing about an uncle going to hell of Prophet Muhammad peace and blessings be upon him and his family.

The verse about Abu Lahab.

May the hands of Abu Lahab be ruined, and ruined is he.

His wealth will not avail him or that which he gained.

He will [enter to] burn in a Fire of [blazing] flame

And his wife [as well] - the carrier of firewood.

Around her neck is a rope of [twisted] fiber.

---

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ab%C5%AB_Lahab

Yeah you're right, he was a huge enemy of Muslims originally

(July 13, 2014 at 4:12 pm)OceanWave Wrote:

(July 13, 2014 at 4:06 pm)Beccs Wrote: Yet you still don't address the arguments put to you.

I did, it's likely you've missed a page.

Or you've lost the plot.

You really are a tosser, you know that? Joining our forum and telling us what we should so ?

Go back to your murderous raping religion leave the rest of us with our otherwise happy lives.