Yes that's the best I can do.
I doubt anyone could change your deeply held views.
So I'm not going to try.
Talk of "bombing a million if that's what it takes" from 60,000 feet now that's cowardice.
Palestinians are humans too, Germans forgot that Jewish people are humans and committed one of the
biggest tragedies in modern human history.
You have good knowledge on the subject, but its very one-sided.
I'd guess you live in USA.
The Palestinians have no hope of beating Israel militarily.
A few kerosene powered fireworks (remember we are still here) are no match against laser guided missiles.
But in many ways Israel have lost this round.
Regular people who would normally support Israel are beginning to question.
BTW we are all kept in the dark and fed bullshit.
Its how every government in every country controls us, often without us even realising it.
Ever had a thought that you were sure was your own and original, only to find out that very same day, that many others also have had that same thought. How was that placed there?

(August 8, 2014 at 6:43 pm)Oldm8 Wrote: Yes that's the best I can do.
I doubt anyone could change your deeply held views.

Yes, you can change my views, provided you can give me sound and logical reasons to do so.

Quote:So I'm not going to try.

So I will deduce from that you have no sound and logical reasons.

Quote:Talk of "bombing a million if that's what it takes" from 60,000 feet now that's cowardice.

The bombings I'm suggesting is of the order of a tactical level to acquire a definite goal: the unconditional surrender of the enemy. Once that is accomplished, then talks of a treaty can happen. At the moment, talks of peace would be an exercise in futility.

If you think achieving a greater goal - a chance at permanent peace is cowardice - then your judgment is blinded by your emotions.

Quote:Palestinians are humans too, Germans forgot that Jewish people are humans and committed one of the biggest tragedies in modern human history.

Then talk to your Palestinian friends and reason with them that launching rockets on a daily basis ( 11,000 at the last count) is not going to get them special bonus prize. What they will get is misery and more misery.

Quote:You have good knowledge on the subject, but its very one-sided.

Logic guided me to this one side, not emotions.

Quote:The Palestinians have no hope of beating Israel militarily.

Perhaps, however they believe otherwise.

Quote:A few kerosene powered fireworks (remember we are still here) are no match against laser guided missiles.

I don't think that is a deterrence, from their point of view.

Quote:But in many ways Israel have lost this round.

Don't count your eggs before they hatch.

Quote:Regular people who would normally support Israel are beginning to question.

I have no doubt that many fools fall for the propaganda Hamas along with Al Jazeera are putting out.

Quote: BTW we are all kept in the dark and fed bullshit.
Its how every government in every country controls us, often without us even realising it.
Ever had a thought that you were sure was your own and original, only to find out that very same day, that many others also have had that same thought. How was that placed there?

Well, speak for yourself.

(August 8, 2014 at 6:43 pm)Oldm8 Wrote: Yes that's the best I can do.
I doubt anyone could change your deeply held views.
So I'm not going to try.
Talk of "bombing a million if that's what it takes" from 60,000 feet now that's cowardice.
Palestinians are humans too, Germans forgot that Jewish people are humans and committed one of the
biggest tragedies in modern human history.
You have good knowledge on the subject, but its very one-sided.
I'd guess you live in USA.
The Palestinians have no hope of beating Israel militarily.
A few kerosene powered fireworks (remember we are still here) are no match against laser guided missiles.
But in many ways Israel have lost this round.
Regular people who would normally support Israel are beginning to question.
BTW we are all kept in the dark and fed bullshit.
Its how every government in every country controls us, often without us even realising it.
Ever had a thought that you were sure was your own and original, only to find out that very same day, that many others also have had that same thought. How was that placed there?

Israel is at war with Hamas, not with the Palestinians. Although the Palestinians do embrace Hamas and give them sanctuary. The Palestinians also allow Hamas to headquarter and to fire missiles into Israel from their neighborhoods. Neither is Hamas fighting with kerosene powered fireworks. They're firing missiles into Israel, and Israel responds. If the Palestinians want to avoid their own casualties from Israeli air-raids, then they need to stop giving support to Hamas and throw them out.

(August 8, 2014 at 11:20 am)little_monkey Wrote: It's stupid to you as you're not smart enough to understand. It's your problem. Deal with it.

No, killing in the name of peace is like fucking in the name of virginity. If you're so brainwashed you cannot see that basic fact -- if you're so brainwashed that the only thing you can think of is "kill the wabbit, kill the wabbit" -- then that's your business. Don't think you'll get a free pass to spew propaganda without challenge.

Me, I think there's got to be a way to resolve it without killing millions, or engaging in carpet-bombing. Do I know what it is yet? No. But I do know that if I refuse to consider any other possibility (as you are doing here) then that leaves killing as the only option. "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results."

That's your preference. Live with the criticism.

---

(August 8, 2014 at 11:20 am)little_monkey Wrote: Your point clearly indicated to me that you do not consider the Palestinians smart enough. You didn't use those words but you clearly, unconsciously implied that.

Clearly you have substandard reading skills, given your inability to distinguish between "cultural" and "ethnic" matters, and I don't doubt for a moment you're projecting your own internal hatred of Palestinians, whom you'd like to kill by the millions, upon someone else in the hopes of distracting readers from your obvious ethnic hatred.

---

(August 8, 2014 at 12:45 pm)A Theist Wrote: Oh. Are we at a million deaths now since the war between Hamas and Israel broke out?

Quite the stretch you have going on here.

No one said we were at a million deaths. However, Little Monkey here said he'd be fine with killing one million Palestinians in the name of an Israeli victory. That is the target of my critique, and the reason why that figure is being discussed.

This is all made clear in the thread. I know it's a lot of pages, but if you're going to discuss the views espoused, becoming familiar with them seems to be a good place to start.

Quote:I'm glad you feel that way. Israel agrees with you. That's why they're bombing Hamas targets, to prevent as many Israeli deaths as possible.

And I get that. A government is charged with defending its citizens. The question is, is there another, better way forward? I don't know if there is or isn't, but I'm pretty damned sure that sowing the seeds of resentment and hatred in the next generation of Israelis or Palestinians will almost certainly exact no change at all.

---

(August 8, 2014 at 5:43 pm)little_monkey Wrote:

(August 8, 2014 at 5:32 pm)Oldm8 Wrote: I think Little Monkey should change name to mushroom.
Kept in the dark and fed bullshit.

Is that the best you can do?

How about putting out your views so that everyone can examine them?

Or are you just a fucking coward?

Considering that you'd have trouble reading the side of a box of Cheerios, much less a single complex thought, I'd say his reticence is probably wise ... pearls, swine, etc etc.

(August 8, 2014 at 7:56 pm)A Theist Wrote: Israel is at war with Hamas, not with the Palestinians. Although the Palestinians do embrace Hamas and give them sanctuary. The Palestinians also allow Hamas to headquarter and to fire missiles into Israel from their neighborhoods. Neither is Hamas fighting with kerosene powered fireworks. They're firing missiles into Israel, and Israel responds. If the Palestinians want to avoid their own casualties from Israeli air-raids, then they need to stop giving support to Hamas and throw them out.

You imply that Hamas are not right to attempt to attack Israel. What if a newly-strong Asia, headed by China, decided to establish a Mexican nation in the middle of the US? Isn't it true that one group's monstrous terrorists are its neighbors' freedom fighters?

little_monkey

Regular people who would normally support Israel are beginning to question.
"I have no doubt that many fools fall for the propaganda Hamas along with Al Jazeera are putting out."
Could be replaced with,
I have no doubt that many fools fall for the propaganda IDF and their mouthpieces in USA are putting out.

My point exactly we are ALL, you included, kept in the dark and fed bullshit.

(August 8, 2014 at 8:48 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(August 8, 2014 at 11:20 am)little_monkey Wrote: It's stupid to you as you're not smart enough to understand. It's your problem. Deal with it.

No, killing in the name of peace is like fucking in the name of virginity.

Maybe in your little brain, that is equivalent but it isn't.

Quote:If you're so brainwashed you cannot see that basic fact -- if you're so brainwashed that the only thing you can think of is "kill the wabbit, kill the wabbit" -- then that's your business. Don't think you'll get a free pass to spew propaganda without challenge.

Of course ignore the part where I said the bombings is a tactical measure to bring about permanent peace.

Quote:Me, I think there's got to be a way to resolve it without killing millions, or engaging in carpet-bombing. Do I know what it is yet? No.

And anyone who could have a solution, tear that one down. Great thinking, genius.

Quote:But I do know that if I refuse to consider any other possibility (as you are doing here) then that leaves killing as the only option. "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results."

That's your preference. Live with the criticism.

If you had a better option you would be in a position to criticize. But since you've admitted you don't have, and in the meantime the war rages on, and more people are being killed by the day, which in the end could result into far more casualties than the solution I'm proposing - your cricitism has little validity.

Quote:

(August 8, 2014 at 11:20 am)little_monkey Wrote: Your point clearly indicated to me that you do not consider the Palestinians smart enough. You didn't use those words but you clearly, unconsciously implied that.

Clearly you have substandard reading skills, given your inability to distinguish between "cultural" and "ethnic" matters, and I don't doubt for a moment you're projecting your own internal hatred of Palestinians, whom you'd like to kill by the millions, upon someone else in the hopes of distracting readers from your obvious ethnic hatred.

Whether you attribute to cultural or ethnic matters, the bottom line is you think that Palestinians aren't smart enough. The real person who is biased and racist is YOU.

Secondly I bear no hate towards the Palestinians as I have absolutely no reason to have such hate. My position comes solely from logic, not emotions as in your case that blinds you from getting to a real solution.

---

(August 8, 2014 at 10:24 pm)bennyboy Wrote:

(August 8, 2014 at 7:56 pm)A Theist Wrote: Israel is at war with Hamas, not with the Palestinians. Although the Palestinians do embrace Hamas and give them sanctuary. The Palestinians also allow Hamas to headquarter and to fire missiles into Israel from their neighborhoods. Neither is Hamas fighting with kerosene powered fireworks. They're firing missiles into Israel, and Israel responds. If the Palestinians want to avoid their own casualties from Israeli air-raids, then they need to stop giving support to Hamas and throw them out.

You imply that Hamas are not right to attempt to attack Israel. What if a newly-strong Asia, headed by China, decided to establish a Mexican nation in the middle of the US? Isn't it true that one group's monstrous terrorists are its neighbors' freedom fighters?

Benny, if Hamas wants to continue this war, which has been going on since 1948, it's their prerogative, but then accept the misery that war brings along. Don't come home to mama and complain. The other problem is that by stationing their "freedom fighters" among the civilians, there will be large collateral damage, and Hamas is counting on that to win the propaganda war. And that makes Hamas responsible for those casualities, not Israel which has no option but to defend itself. Hamas has a choice: continue their armed struggle or lay down their arms. The second option is the only option for the possibility of a permanent peace.

---

(August 9, 2014 at 4:52 am)Oldm8 Wrote: little_monkey

Regular people who would normally support Israel are beginning to question.
"I have no doubt that many fools fall for the propaganda Hamas along with Al Jazeera are putting out."

Could be replaced with,
I have no doubt that many fools fall for the propaganda IDF and their mouthpieces in USA are putting out.

My point exactly we are ALL, you included, kept in the dark and fed bullshit.

Perhaps you are in the dark, but there is such a thing as knowledge that can take you out of the darkness. As it turns out my knowledge of the history in the ME is quite steep. So my suggestion to you is take the time and trouble to get yourself educated in the facts concerning this problem before making comments based on some superficial knowledge you may have on the subject.

(August 8, 2014 at 10:24 pm)bennyboy Wrote:

(August 8, 2014 at 7:56 pm)A Theist Wrote: Israel is at war with Hamas, not with the Palestinians. Although the Palestinians do embrace Hamas and give them sanctuary. The Palestinians also allow Hamas to headquarter and to fire missiles into Israel from their neighborhoods. Neither is Hamas fighting with kerosene powered fireworks. They're firing missiles into Israel, and Israel responds. If the Palestinians want to avoid their own casualties from Israeli air-raids, then they need to stop giving support to Hamas and throw them out.

You imply that Hamas are not right to attempt to attack Israel. What if a newly-strong Asia, headed by China, decided to establish a Mexican nation in the middle of the US? Isn't it true that one group's monstrous terrorists are its neighbors' freedom fighters?

Despite being invaded and scattered by the Romans, there has always been Jews still living in that region. In 1948 the UN recognized that area of Palestine as the ancestrial and ancient homeland of the Jews when they declared Israel a nation. Hamas are not freedom fighters. They're a terrorist group whose goal is the destruction of Israel. If the Palestinians want to avoid more casualties then they need to stop giving santuary to Hamas and not allow them to headquater and fire rockets into Israel from their neighborhoods.

Yes we should be increasing support for isreal because when there done with Hummus were gonna need there help fighting this new isis terrorist army

[/quote]
Isn't it true that one group's monstrous terrorists are its neighbors' freedom fighters?
[/quote]

No. That is false. It is a widely believed myth and justification for employing terrorist tactics. Using violence to free oneself from from an unjust authority has been seen as socially, politically, and morally acceptable. Using terrorism to achieve these ends is not. Blowing up pizza parlors full of children is not the primary tactic of insurgents fighting guerrilla wars against a national military/police force, for terrorists it is. Here is one of the MANY articles, books, scholarly works that explains it better than I can.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arch...er/257245/

If you still are not satisfied then Google it. The point being that statement is not true and does more harm than good.

Hummus is good. I really like the roasted red pepper and garlic varieties.