(July 13, 2014 at 1:29 am)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote: it really seems less bad by comparison.

Why? Because they use an army and jet aircraft to murder civilians instead of suicide bombers?

Terrorists can wear uniforms.

Hey, at least they don't kill their own citizens over trivial things like extramarital sex (including homosexuality), consensual heterosexual sodomy, or not being a part of the dominant religion. Israel has its own glaring flaws (seriously, arguing for or against Israel or Palestine having any sort of moral high ground is as ridiculous as arguing the same for White Spy or Black Spy), but the willy-nilly use of the death penalty so alarmingly common in Arab countries isn't one of them.

The real problem is the Hamas charter. It would be better if the Palestinian arrested them or even better the Egyptian authorities move in with Palestinian Authority acceptance. Israel should not enter GAZA rather have the Egyptians do it and establish order with other Palestinian Authority acceptance. Again, have the Egyptian military enter Gaza rather than Israel. Or it could be joint venture? Israel has Dome system and the Egyptians could do the policing because the people Gaza would turn in the HAMAS people.

Israel is the 2nd greatest nation on the planet israel was able to forsee an massive impending attack by egypt syria and jordan and instead of sitting around looking stupid they launched there own attack that nearly wiped out all three countrys ground and air forces in 6 days sorry but we need to keep israel as our ally and were going to need our little jewish buddys in the desert to help us with this ISIS threat
i think israel is washing its hands of HAMMAS
HAMMAS has basically poked the bear for the last time, They are fully mobilized and there not going to stop untill HAMMAS isnt much more then a distant memory

Quote:[quote='ccapehart1980' pid='727553' dateline='1407669593']
Israel is the 2nd greatest nation on the planet

So, what - it goes New Zealand, Israel, Switzerland, Fiji - then who?

Boru

Quote:Hey, at least they don't kill their own citizens over trivial things like extramarital sex (including homosexuality), consensual heterosexual sodomy, or not being a part of the dominant religion.

I guess I'm not willing to set the bar that low, Rev. Recall that the OP was about using American tax dollars to support this bunch of murdering fuckheads.

Some facts to be considered in regard to foreign aid:

Israel: $3.1 B


Afghanistan: $12.8 B
Iraq: $1.9 B
Egypt: $1.4B
Pakistan: $1.2 B
Jordan: $1.1 B
West Bank/Gaza: $0.5 B

So the US helps the Islamic countries far more than Israel.

So why singling out Israel?!??

Quote:So why singling out Israel?!??

Because they gleefully use our weapons to slaughter civilians?


Just a guess.

(August 10, 2014 at 11:58 am)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:So why singling out Israel?!??

Because they gleefully use our weapons to slaughter civilians?


Just a guess.

Wrong guess. Israel is defending itself. Hamas uses the population as a human shield to launch rockets. Hamas is mostly responsible for those civilian casualties.

(July 12, 2014 at 3:53 pm)CristW Wrote: Yes, leaving Israel alone may be the best alternative. I was thinking if the Muslims won and defeated Israel would they still want to attack America ???

Sorry but I haven't read the entire thread yet and wanted to point this out before I forgot. American support of Israel is not the only reason the U.S. has problems with the Muslim world. The presence of American military personnel in Saudi Arabia has always been an issue for Muslims. Thankfully, we have pulled most of them out. I think there is a CIA drone base still and of course the missions that arm and train the Saudi National Guard. The latter is viewed unfavorably in the Arab world as the Saudi National Guard is used to keep the House of Saud in power. They argue we keep their oppressors in power in exchange for relative stability in a major oil producing region. This also applies to countries like Pakistan, Qatar, Bahrain, Yemen, etc. Another major factor is our perceived lack of faith and morals. We are seen by many as a corrupt, morally bankrupt society. Women can vote, drive cars, go outside without a hijab or burqa. You know the list. Add some good old fashioned envy to our foreign policy and I don't think it really matters if Israelis and Palestinians walk together, hand in hand, singing Kumbaya tomorrow.

(August 10, 2014 at 11:35 am)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:Hey, at least they don't kill their own citizens over trivial things like extramarital sex (including homosexuality), consensual heterosexual sodomy, or not being a part of the dominant religion.

I guess I'm not willing to set the bar that low, Rev. Recall that the OP was about using American tax dollars to support this bunch of murdering fuckheads.

Of course, this is the Middle East we're talking about. At this point, I don't think there's any area in the world where the human rights situation is so bad that a state that engages in war crimes and glorified apartheid to the degree that Israel does can still be, far and away, one of the more enlightened nations in the area.

It's really something saying that the only other nation that comes close to being as democratic as Israel in the area blocks entire websites critical of the government, retains an almost Kim Il-Sung-level of cult of personality over its founder, and actually had its only Nobel Prize winner arrested for acknowledging that the Armenian genocide happened; and under a law that didn't even exist when he made the incriminating comments, no less.

Really, when the closest things to free states in the area have such horrible human rights records, I think it's perfectly reasonable to set the bar that low.