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So Drich, some 25 pages later, nothing to say to the accusation that it's all in your head, huh?
clicky here to refresh your memory:
(August 10, 2014 at 3:44 am)pocaracas Wrote: Drich, psychology can explain how that works so mind numbingly easily, that it's a wonder people still fall for that line!
Since I'm on my phone I won't go in depth here, but I'll say: it's all in your head.
(August 11, 2014 at 4:15 am)pocaracas Wrote:
(August 11, 2014 at 12:13 am)Esquilax Wrote: Again, the process failed for me. It failed for everyone else in this thread.
Actually, I never even tried it!
I saw right through the psych therapy non-sense and dismissed it entirely.
"Assume there is a god" -> "search that god" -> "if you can't find it, you need to tweak your concept of god" -> "assume this god exists" -> "search that god" -> (repeat ad nauseum)
There's a funny thing about human psychology that politicians discovered a long time ago:
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it" often attributed to Joseph Goebbels, but it's not really his.
There's something similar in Hitler's Mein Kampf, about what he claimed to be a strategem of Jewish lies using "the principle & which is quite true in itself & that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily,"
Now the creepy part, this also applies to the self!
"If you tell a lie enough times, it becomes the truth"
Many a trauma arise from such behavior.
August 20, 2014 at 6:10 pm (This post was last modified: August 20, 2014 at 6:14 pm by Thumpalumpacus.)
(August 19, 2014 at 11:01 am)Drich Wrote: I know the bible is accurate because the one perfect and good God has kept His end of the deal after i kept mine.
lol, the deal isn't done, you'll burn in hell yet ... because pride is a sin, too.
(August 19, 2014 at 1:40 pm)Undeceived Wrote:
(August 19, 2014 at 12:44 pm)oukoida Wrote: This system is flawed because you have no way of knowing if the result is real or just a figment of your imagination caused by wishful thinking and confirmation bias.
Perhaps the Bible can explain.
1 Corinthians 1
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
20 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22 Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.
26 Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31 Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.”
1 Corinthians 2
1 And so it was with me, brothers and sisters. When I came to you, I did not come with eloquence or human wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God.[a] 2 For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3 I came to you in weakness with great fear and trembling. 4 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5 so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.
6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 However, as it is written:
“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”—
the things God has prepared for those who love him—
10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.[c] 14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 15 The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, 16 for,
“Who has known the mind of the Lord
so as to instruct him?"
But we have the mind of Christ.
August 20, 2014 at 6:22 pm (This post was last modified: August 20, 2014 at 6:24 pm by Simon Moon.)
(August 20, 2014 at 5:23 pm)pocaracas Wrote: So Drich, some 25 pages later, nothing to say to the accusation that it's all in your head, huh?
I've been asking him the same thing for months. Never a response.
He can not provide one bit of evidence that he is not misinterpreting a natural brain state.
His only argument is circular.
"The Bible makes a claim, that if you follow steps 123, you will get results XYZ. I followed steps 123 and got results XYZ. Therefore, God".
He cannot know that following steps 123 did not cause a natural brain state that he misinterpreted. Which is most likely the case.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
August 20, 2014 at 7:08 pm (This post was last modified: August 20, 2014 at 7:21 pm by Lucanus.)
Drippy Wrote:
(August 20, 2014 at 3:33 am)oukoida Wrote: SPOILERS: Col. Sanders was a person, the documentation regarding him is reliable and objective and can be verified by a third party.
The absolute same can be said about Jesus.
Oh yes? Then scholars all over the world will be glad to hear your absolute proof of his existence.
Drippy Wrote:
Quote:The documentation about god is oftentimes vague, imprecise and open to a variety of interpretations. God is your claim, and if you don't show us any objective evidence of him no one's going to change their minds.
There are more documents about Jesus than anyone else of that time period.
If Christ's existance is in question then so too is everyone else who lived then.
You know, SOME PEOPLE burnt books until the ones about Jesus were more than those about everyone else in that time period.
Drippy Wrote:
Quote:The problem is that you're looking for god but it does not stand up to any scrutiny from a third party.
Again see above.
Quote:Still looks like vague metaphors to me.
almost there... just a few more verses.
I'm tired of this charade. If you have bible verses to show me, then show them already.
Also, if you were a honest person, you would address the central point of my argument which is what pocaracas as well has asked of you since about page 5. He's had to restate that because of your (willful?) forgetfulness. We can all see through your shit mate.
"Every luxury has a deep price. Every indulgence, a cosmic cost. Each fiber of pleasure you experience causes equivalent pain somewhere else. This is the first law of emodynamics [sic]. Joy can be neither created nor destroyed. The balance of happiness is constant.
Fact: Every time you eat a bite of cake, someone gets horsewhipped.
Facter: Every time two people kiss, an orphanage collapses.
Factest: Every time a baby is born, an innocent animal is severely mocked for its physical appearance. Don't be a pleasure hog. Your every smile is a dagger. Happiness is murder.
Vote "yes" on Proposition 1321. Think of some kids. Some kids."
August 20, 2014 at 8:24 pm (This post was last modified: August 20, 2014 at 8:44 pm by Drich.)
(August 20, 2014 at 7:08 pm)oukoida Wrote: Oh yes? Then scholars all over the world will be glad to hear your absolute proof of his existence.
"Scholars" dont have an issue with the acknoweledgement of jesus.
Quote:You know, SOME PEOPLE burnt books until the ones about Jesus were more than those about everyone else in that time period.
The fact of the matter is the why it happened is less important than the fact that if one questions Jesus then everyone with less provenance of that time period also comes into question. Thats why "scholars" do not have issue with the existence of Jesus.
It would be like calling into question the existence of julius Caesar.
Quote:I'm tired of this charade. If you have bible verses to show me, then show them already.
i bet. Because verse 13 destroys your arguement. Christ very clearly tells us what we are asking for and what God is offering. But i guess you already know that huh?
Quote:Also, if you were a honest person, you would address the central point of my argument which is what pocaracas as well has asked of you since about page 5. He's had to restate that because of your (willful?) forgetfulness. We can all see through your shit mate.
Asked and answered. [/quote]
(August 20, 2014 at 5:23 pm)pocaracas Wrote: So Drich, some 25 pages later, nothing to say to the accusation that it's all in your head, huh?
clicky here to refresh your memory:
(August 10, 2014 at 3:44 am)pocaracas Wrote: Drich, psychology can explain how that works so mind numbingly easily, that it's a wonder people still fall for that line!
Since I'm on my phone I won't go in depth here, but I'll say: it's all in your head.
(August 11, 2014 at 4:15 am)pocaracas Wrote: Actually, I never even tried it!
I saw right through the psych therapy non-sense and dismissed it entirely.
"Assume there is a god" -> "search that god" -> "if you can't find it, you need to tweak your concept of god" -> "assume this god exists" -> "search that god" -> (repeat ad nauseum)
There's a funny thing about human psychology that politicians discovered a long time ago:
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it" often attributed to Joseph Goebbels, but it's not really his.
There's something similar in Hitler's Mein Kampf, about what he claimed to be a strategem of Jewish lies using "the principle & which is quite true in itself & that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily,"
Now the creepy part, this also applies to the self!
"If you tell a lie enough times, it becomes the truth"
Many a trauma arise from such behavior.
You havent asked me anything.
You made an assertion that its in my head, and you started a dialog by quoting someone else thoughts.
I did not even read what you had to say as it was not addressed to me.
(August 20, 2014 at 6:10 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(August 19, 2014 at 11:01 am)Drich Wrote: I know the bible is accurate because the one perfect and good God has kept His end of the deal after i kept mine.
lol, the deal isn't done, you'll burn in hell yet ... because pride is a sin, too.
(August 19, 2014 at 1:40 pm)Undeceived Wrote: Perhaps the Bible can explain.
1 Corinthians 1
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
20 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22 Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.
26 Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31 Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.”
1 Corinthians 2
1 And so it was with me, brothers and sisters. When I came to you, I did not come with eloquence or human wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God.[a] 2 For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3 I came to you in weakness with great fear and trembling. 4 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5 so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.
6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 However, as it is written:
“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”—
the things God has prepared for those who love him—
10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.[c] 14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 15 The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, 16 for,
“Who has known the mind of the Lord
so as to instruct him?"
But we have the mind of Christ.
Congratulations, you've won first prize in the horseshit sweepstakes today.
Pride is a sin but finds the same attonement as all other sin.
I dont get what the verse you posted has to do with anything, can you explain it?
(August 20, 2014 at 6:22 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:
(August 20, 2014 at 5:23 pm)pocaracas Wrote: So Drich, some 25 pages later, nothing to say to the accusation that it's all in your head, huh?
I've been asking him the same thing for months. Never a response.
He can not provide one bit of evidence that he is not misinterpreting a natural brain state.
His only argument is circular.
"The Bible makes a claim, that if you follow steps 123, you will get results XYZ. I followed steps 123 and got results XYZ. Therefore, God".
He cannot know that following steps 123 did not cause a natural brain state that he misinterpreted. Which is most likely the case.
Not true. When asked i pointed to spiritual fruit as out lined in gal 5, and spiritual gifts found in 1cor 12. These are all external points that can be tested.
You do know the evidence for Jesus is circumstantial, right? There were a number of people around this time who were apocalyptic prophets around whom cults sprang up. It is likely that The Jesus myth sprang up around one of these figures. And I say "myth" because portions of the gospels are historically not true. And verifiably so. Of course the existence of god has no connection to the veracity of scripture, but if it's your only tool then you're in trouble. You seem unable to provide one piece of independent evidence outside of the gospels and personal subjective experience.
If you believe because you just want to, that's fine. My mom is like that and I respect her more for admitting it. I don't want to stop you from something that works for you, provided you aren't hurting anyone. But please stop with the circular arguments.
(August 20, 2014 at 10:01 pm)GalacticBusDriver Wrote:
(August 19, 2014 at 7:06 pm)Drich Wrote: What better proof of God than God Himself?
Present him for our inspection and we'll see.
Until then, would you please tell the voices in your head we're not interested in what they have to say? Thanks so much.
Again, God is not some trainned monkey i can produce, to perform on your demand. I have absolutly no say in what God does. That however does not mean you can get an audience with Him. You just have to do things His way. (Think meeting the president or queen or whatever head of state you have.) you have to do it their way on their terms. So why not the God of creation? In short you become the monkey.. Which should suit most of you, just fine. (evolutionists)
Get it? Monkey/evolutionists??
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
i bet. Because verse 13 destroys your arguement. Christ very clearly tells us what we are asking for and what God is offering. But i guess you already know that huh?
