(December 23, 2008 at 8:51 pm)Tiberius Wrote: Yet they have video mobile phones. To be quite honest, your "trust me" attitude simply looks to me like you haven't even bothered to research. You've just seen what you wanted to and believed without questioning.

I don't consider cell phones to be major technology. Heck, even bin Laden uses a cell phone "made in America!"

Quote:First, I want to know why you have been having a go at us saying atheism is "grabbing at straws" when you just admitted that it was your heart and soul that told you. We didn't have any such revelation, and you expect this to affect this in the way it has you?

Atheism IS grasping at straws. you guys claim Jesus Christ didn't exist, but caves, churches, and now visions are appearing before our very eyes. caves existed that worshipped Christ long before the N.T was written. it's fortunate that this event was caught on camera.. or else no one would believe it. sort of like the bible. so i guess these visions do appear.

Quote:Secondly, where is your evidence that the figure was talking? Have you got a recording of what was said, or eyewitness accounts? No. Please provide the transcript.

if you watch the video.. you mean to tell me you can't see his mouth moving? this vision clearly has something to say.

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(December 24, 2008 at 12:00 pm)CoxRox Wrote: Oh no. I just watched the video again, and this time I could clearly see that it isn't a man, just some shapes that look like a face and something moving near the shapes. It's all silly and I feel silly .....

That's funny because I see a man wrapped in a white shroud with flowing brown hair, and his right arm is extended.. and he is clearly saying something to the people of lebanon..

what are the odds of the sunlights reflection from this tree creating the perfect image of Jesus Christ wrapped in a white shroud?

Quote:what are the odds of the sunlights reflection from this tree creating the perfect image of Jesus Christ wrapped in a white shroud?

But that's just it isn't it? It isn't a perfect image at all. Half the people who have seen it can't see anything at all and most of the rest simply see an interesting optical effect.

If it were a perfect image of Jesus (not that anyone knows what he looked like) then it would have been all over the worlds news networks but, as far as I can remember, the only place I've seen it is youtube!

And why do you think that atheists think that Jesus never existed? Perhaps it's simply because you want to.

No, I'm sorry to say but it certainly does seem that it is just your desperate need to believe that has led you to this conclusion and you are blinkered to all other possibilities.

(December 25, 2008 at 10:58 am)Psalm 23 Wrote: I don't consider cell phones to be major technology. Heck, even bin Laden uses a cell phone "made in America!"

You are right. Who on Earth would consider a video camera, phone that can connect to a vast global network, and general handy organising device that fits in the palm of your hand, a "major technology"? You know nothing of the detailed mechanics inside the phone, so don't pretend you do.

Quote:Atheism IS grasping at straws. you guys claim Jesus Christ didn't exist,

For the last time...NO we don't. Some atheists perhaps, but not all. That would be like me saying Christians say the Earth was made 6000 years ago, even though it is only a small number of believers who say that.

Quote:but caves, churches, and now visions are appearing before our very eyes. caves existed that worshipped Christ long before the N.T was written. it's fortunate that this event was caught on camera.. or else no one would believe it. sort of like the bible. so i guess these visions do appear.

Visions have been appearing for centuries, and they are nothing more than that..."visions". Tricks of the eye that resemble either a young woman or a man.

Quote:if you watch the video.. you mean to tell me you can't see his mouth moving? this vision clearly has something to say.

I did watch the video, and I saw the moving mouth. I wanted to know your evidence for this vision actually verbally talking, which you have claimed. Did anyone record the voice? Does anyone have a transcript? No. Just because things look like they are happening doesn't mean they are.

Since Jesus of Nazareth, or Jesus Christ if you will, have just been mentioned in one book atleast 50 yaers athers his supposed death then its hard to know if he existed or not.

But since I´m no scientist on the subject or have not read enough to everything so do I wonder if he have been metioned somewhere else besides the bible? Have he been mentioned like in a roman text or something similar, does anyone know?

What we atleast know is that if he existed were he probably just an activist, as I mentioned before, since he was a follower of an religious acitvist who was a leader of religious apocalyptic group of people; John the Baptist

As always Psalm you have totally ignored my post regarding the physical appearance of Christ.Let me explain my intentions to you in laymans terms.I did that to illustrate that the video link you presented from youtube appeared to show an image of a man that looked like the current conception of what Christ actually looked like in the eyes of todays Christians.But as I illustrated and shown through my link which I am pretty sure that you did not bother to even look at Jesus went through many transformations in the art world.Why?Because no one has a clue what your fictional God man looked like.And I still affirm that Jesus never existed but as you seem to ignore not all atheists hold this view.Not only is the bible and gospels not a first hand account of the life and times of Jesus Christ but it is entirely fictional and based on oral myths and hearsay.

(December 26, 2008 at 12:17 pm)chatpilot Wrote: As always Psalm you have totally ignored my post regarding the physical appearance of Christ.Let me explain my intentions to you in laymans terms.I did that to illustrate that the video link you presented from youtube appeared to show an image of a man that looked like the current conception of what Christ actually looked like in the eyes of todays Christians.But as I illustrated and shown through my link which I am pretty sure that you did not bother to even look at Jesus went through many transformations in the art world.Why?Because no one has a clue what your fictional God man looked like.And I still affirm that Jesus never existed but as you seem to ignore not all atheists hold this view.Not only is the bible and gospels not a first hand account of the life and times of Jesus Christ but it is entirely fictional and based on oral myths and hearsay.

My posting time is limited at times. however, i did research your link, and it shows the different pictures of Jesus throughout the centuries. but what is interesting about this vision is it fits the Jesus we all know. The odds of the sun and the tree causing this image is in the billions. if it is the sun and the tree shadows.. then why doesn't this image appear every sunny day in lebanon?

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(December 25, 2008 at 1:47 pm)Tiberius Wrote: You are right. Who on Earth would consider a video camera, phone that can connect to a vast global network, and general handy organising device that fits in the palm of your hand, a "major technology"? You know nothing of the detailed mechanics inside the phone, so don't pretend you do.

anyone carries a celluar phone. just because someone in lebanon can record a video with a cell phone does not mean lebanon leads the world in technology.

Quote:For the last time...NO we don't. Some atheists perhaps, but not all. That would be like me saying Christians say the Earth was made 6000 years ago, even though it is only a small number of believers who say that.

some atheist claim "jesus didn't exist." i didn't say all atheists. but i think the evidence is clear. we just witnessed the ghost of Christ in lebanon.

Quote:Visions have been appearing for centuries, and they are nothing more than that..."visions". Tricks of the eye that resemble either a young woman or a man.

That's right! visions have been appearing for centuries, but now we have cell phone cameras to record them. as for the ancient man.. all they had was a pen and notepad.

Quote:I did watch the video, and I saw the moving mouth. I wanted to know your evidence for this vision actually verbally talking, which you have claimed. Did anyone record the voice? Does anyone have a transcript? No. Just because things look like they are happening doesn't mean they are.

apparently if his mouth is moving, he is saying something! but the lebanese people were in a frenzy!! you could hear them screaming with sheer excitement!

you have witnessed the ghost of christ.. do not reject him any longer.

I've shown you his ghost, and where his worshippers had to hide in a cave shortly after his death..

what more do you want? do you want him to come down here and "walk on water" for you?

you have no excuse to reject him. he's alive and ready to come back..

do you want him to come down here and "walk on water" for you?


That would work, yes.

(December 26, 2008 at 4:55 pm)Psalm 23 Wrote: you have no excuse to reject him. he's alive and ready to come back..

Well, what is he waiting for? He has left generations waiting for nearly 2000 years for christ' sake. I want him on the nine o'clock news tomorrow with some mind baffling tricks and James Randi to check him out. He better be there or you'll end your slithering proselytizing forever!

Or, of course, you could get a grip on yourself and start living among the mortal in the real world.

Looks like the shadow of a tree with the leaves forming the face and the branches gently blowing in the wind to make him appear talking.

(December 26, 2008 at 4:55 pm)Psalm 23 Wrote: anyone carries a celluar phone. just because someone in lebanon can record a video with a cell phone does not mean lebanon leads the world in technology.

Everyone doesn't carry a mobile phone, and even if they did, it wouldn't suddenly become a minor piece of technology. You are yet again committing logical fallacies by setting the goalposts further from what you originally said. I never claimed that lebanon leads the world in technology, but you do not have to lead the world in anything as long as you can import things. Lebanon has access to technology, and mobile phones are very major technology (due to the intricate nature of their design and abilities).

Quote:some atheist claim "jesus didn't exist." i didn't say all atheists. but i think the evidence is clear. we just witnessed the ghost of Christ in lebanon.

You did claim all atheists, because you wrote "Atheism IS grasping at straws. you guys claim Jesus Christ didn't exist,". You specified atheism in general (and atheism is the set of all people who are atheists), and then proceeded to say "you guys" which when not combined with specific names is held as a general statement to include everyone.

Quote:That's right! visions have been appearing for centuries, but now we have cell phone cameras to record them. as for the ancient man.. all they had was a pen and notepad.

I fail to see how this fact makes the visions anything more than tricks of the light. You do realise that tricks of the light can be recorded as well right? Eyes record light for the brain, and cameras record light for computers. Same light...same illusion.

Quote:apparently if his mouth is moving, he is saying something! but the lebanese people were in a frenzy!! you could hear them screaming with sheer excitement!

I move my mouth without talking, so how do you know it was talking????? You are incredible! You do not know that the vision was talking, and only assume it because the mouth was moving! Until you have a transcript of what the vision said, how do you even know it was really talking?

Quote:you have witnessed the ghost of christ.. do not reject him any longer.

I witnessed a video of skeptical origin, that looked like the shadow of a tree resembling a man. Nothing was reported to have been said by the vision, and you have provided no transcript of anything that was supposedly said (I think you made the whole talking event up btw). Just because people jump around in joy does not mean anything amazing happened.

Quote:I've shown you his ghost, and where his worshippers had to hide in a cave shortly after his death..

As we've said before, a temple proves nothing apart from a man named Jesus probably existed and was a great teacher. It doesn't prove he was anything else, let alone the son of God.

Quote:what more do you want? do you want him to come down here and "walk on water" for you?

That would help...yeah.

Quote:you have no excuse to reject him. he's alive and ready to come back..

I have every excuse to reject him. I live my life depending on evidence that can be observed and tested. If he is ready to come back, then I will await his return, and mock you when it never happens.