(September 26, 2014 at 10:07 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

(September 26, 2014 at 9:54 pm)Hezekiah Wrote: Haha! Fair enough The realist in me says that something like this is very unlikely, but its fun to engage the idea.

I will say that a persons worldview, in my eyes, doesn't reflect who they are, but rather what they stand for. I'm a bit of a humanist in loose terms, and I would like to think that a person could be valued seperate from their perspective on the world.

You'd like it if people gave your christianity a pass - in short? Granted. It's provisional, of course. Get too christian on me and I'm going to feed you to the pigs.

Honestly though, It doesn't really seem to be much of an issue in our day to day lives, does it? If you aren;t wearing a cross and babbling on about christ who's even going to know whether you were christian or not?

Fantastic!
I guess ultimately I just wanted to allow room for the idea that religions of any kind come with stereotypes good and/or bad. And that those stereotypes don't apply to each individual. In the case of the Christian who isn't babbling on about Christ, the only ones who would typically know about his Christian worldview would be the people closest to him (friends, family, etc). That range of people would be understandable to casually share why you believe what you believe. However when you reach that acquaintance/stranger area, you risk insulting people.

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(September 26, 2014 at 10:10 pm)Starvald Demelain Wrote:

(September 26, 2014 at 9:39 pm)Hezekiah Wrote: Do you think it is possible for Christians and Athiest to come to terms with their differences? And if so, or if not, what do you think it would take to make something like that happen?

No, not really, not on a large scale at least. I'm not sure how things are elsewhere but in my part of the States I see the Christian complex everywhere and I am almost weekly approached about "Do I know Jesus?". When people find out I'm an atheist, they are generally put out like I had smacked them in the face (and I'm generally nice about it too, I've calmed down a good bit in my siesta from AF).

As for what it would take, I don't have a viable answer, but I wish I did.

Wow. Yea stories like that put a bad taste in my mouth. I feel like to really make a difference it would have to 1) come from the someone on the same side as their own to help them see what they are doing is culturally having the opposite effect of what they're trying to do. 2) Introduce the idea that people don't HAVE to have the same perspective you do in order to enjoy their presence (wow what a concept! haha)

Ah, so, the notion here is that stereotypes are a wedge, and that if people realized this, amenable terms might be reached (agreed, on that count..if that's the notion)? What if the issue of contention isn't a stereotype?

(September 26, 2014 at 10:31 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Ah, so, the notion here is that stereotypes are a wedge, and that if people realized this, amenable terms might be reached (agreed, on that count..if that's the notion)? What if the issue of contention isn't a stereotype?

Along those lines, yes. I'm not advocating for the elimination of stereotypes, because there is always some form of truth behind them that needs to be recognized. As far as contention, I don't believe that is a stereotype as much as a conflict of interests. And like in all cases of conflict they need to be dealt with according to the facts of the situation. There's nothing wrong with conflict. Not if both sides have each other's overall interests in mind. Meaning, as long as you are aware of where the other person is coming from and what they seek is not harmful to you or the people around each of you, I see no reason why a discussion should not end on good terms.

Had the more liberal branch of Christianity won out here in America there would be less friction. I am an atheist but I would welcome as allies Christians who insisted on universal human rights, who realized that we can't poison the only world we know, and who would seek a justice system that actually dispenses justice. Had the Christians chosen to emphasize some of the moral teachings of the bible as found in Mathew 5 - 7, & 25, Luke 10 & 16, or John 8, and held THOSE as the literal word of god, (and had not decided the bible was a history / science book) America would be a much different, and much better place. And though I would still regard their god claims as mostly foolishness, there would be no reason to regard them as enemies of human kind.

Unfortunately the worst parts of Christianity became the focus of the America sects; war-mongering, greed, judgment, misogyny, racism, violence, homophobia... I have no respect for such beliefs, but they define Christianity in America.

So no, it isn't likely we are going to get along.

(September 26, 2014 at 9:39 pm)Hezekiah Wrote: I don't mean to be a "hippie" about this. But I was geniunely wondering:

I'm a Christian and I don't force my beliefs onto anyone. I used to be athiest then agnostic, and when I picked up Christianity again, I came to terms that people should be able to believe whatever they want as long as their beliefs aren't cultivating hatred towards another human being.

I also have many athiest, agnostic, and a few muslim friends. They are all awesome individuals, and we find ourselves in debates and disagreements about worldviews, but at the end of the day we just agree to disagree, and respect each other as fellow human beings.

I am also very aware of the "Christianity complex". Christians who feel the need to tell people that they are all going to hell and that they need to "turn from their sins". Yea, I get it, it annoys me too. But I have also been insulted by atheist individuals (luckily I'm pretty laid-back so I tend to shrug it off and laugh at myself if possible).

In conclusion my question is kind of a two-sided question:

Do you think it is possible for Christians and Athiest to come to terms with their differences? And if so, or if not, what do you think it would take to make something like that happen?

The answer for me is I can not respect Christian belief, period. I can respect some Christians if they rise above their belief.

Quote:Meaning, as long as you are aware of where the other person is coming from and what they seek is not harmful to you or the people around each of you, I see no reason why a discussion should not end on good terms.

-and therein lies my point of contention...lol. Perhaps someday one of us will goad the other into a conversation on the subject....maybe we should give love a chance first...lol. That way I'll at least feel conflicted while I'm busy hating you and everything you stand for.

(September 26, 2014 at 10:40 pm)tjakey Wrote: Had the more liberal branch of Christianity won out here in America there would be less friction. I am an atheist but I would welcome as allies Christians who insisted on universal human rights, who realized that we can't poison the only world we know, and who would seek a justice system that actually dispenses justice. Had the Christians chosen to emphasize some of the moral teachings of the bible as found in Mathew 5 - 7, & 25, Luke 10 & 16, or John 8, and held THOSE as the literal word of god, (and had not decided the bible was a history / science book) America would be a much different, and much better place. And though I would still regard their god claims as mostly foolishness, there would be no reason to regard them as enemies of human kind.

Unfortunately the worst parts of Christianity became the focus of the America sects; war-mongering, greed, judgment, misogyny, racism, violence, homophobia... I have no respect for such beliefs, but they define Christianity in America.

So no, it isn't likely we are going to get along.

I really like the prespective you bring. While I don't, in my own terms, define Christianity as a homophobic, violent, racist, etc stance; I do however agree that unfortunately, that is what has become the face of us in America. It's kind of sad to witness something that personally has a beautiful impact on your life, contorted by greed and misunderstanding of scripture, become what it is today.

But as I am entitled to hope (even for what seems like no good reason at all haha), I would hope that what has been done could be un-done for the sake of Christianity. And how you said, "Unfortunately the worst parts of Christianity became the focus.." the cure might be to help re-focus on the right values like universal human rights.

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(September 26, 2014 at 10:46 pm)Chuck Wrote:

(September 26, 2014 at 9:39 pm)Hezekiah Wrote: I don't mean to be a "hippie" about this. But I was geniunely wondering:

I'm a Christian and I don't force my beliefs onto anyone. I used to be athiest then agnostic, and when I picked up Christianity again, I came to terms that people should be able to believe whatever they want as long as their beliefs aren't cultivating hatred towards another human being.

I also have many athiest, agnostic, and a few muslim friends. They are all awesome individuals, and we find ourselves in debates and disagreements about worldviews, but at the end of the day we just agree to disagree, and respect each other as fellow human beings.

I am also very aware of the "Christianity complex". Christians who feel the need to tell people that they are all going to hell and that they need to "turn from their sins". Yea, I get it, it annoys me too. But I have also been insulted by atheist individuals (luckily I'm pretty laid-back so I tend to shrug it off and laugh at myself if possible).

In conclusion my question is kind of a two-sided question:

Do you think it is possible for Christians and Athiest to come to terms with their differences? And if so, or if not, what do you think it would take to make something like that happen?

The answer for me is I can not respect Christian belief, period. I can respect some Christians if they rise above their belief.

I guess I didn't phrase my question accurately. I don't expect someone who disagrees with my beliefs to "respect" my beliefs or vice versa. Rather I guess, in line with the second part of your answer, can we respect each other as individuals despite our differing beliefs. I think there is peace to be had there.

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[quote='Rhythm' pid='759747' dateline='1411786107']

Quote:-and therein lies my point of contention...lol. Perhaps someday one of us will goad the other into a conversation on the subject....maybe we should give love a chance first...lol. That way I'll at least feel conflicted while I'm busy hating you and everything you stand for.

It would be along the lines of a heated discussion with a good friend. You can get as angry and loud and insulting as possible, but you both know in the back of your minds that you each mean each other no harm.

So yea, perhaps someday we will find ourselves on either side of the discussion. But rest assure, I would know that there is still peace to be had between us after its all said and done.

I don't really consider Christers that are into ecumenism, that cherry pick scriptures to comport themselves to, that feel other schismatics of Christianity are still going to heaven, to be that much removed from atheism.

So getting along with them is more of a let me roll my eyes and get moving along kind of thing. Curiously, 'real' religiousites are kinda scarce here. Ot I should say, rarely cross paths with my ilk and myself, LOL.

This stamp might come handy.

(September 26, 2014 at 11:05 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: I don't really consider Christers that are into ecumenism, that cherry pick scriptures to comport themselves to, that feel other schismatics of Christianity are still going to heaven, to be that much removed from atheism.

So getting along with them is more of a let me roll my eyes and get moving along kind of thing. Curiously, 'real' religiousites are kinda scarce here. Ot I should say, rarely cross paths with my ilk and myself, LOL.

"let me roll my eyes and get moving along" Haha!! I like the effort! lol.
But in seriousness, I do respect your ability to weed out the Stereotypical Christians from the ones suffering from the stereotype. It is quite humorous to think that one could "get along" with someone who's only interest is converting you to their way of belief. I believe a dose of atheism does a religious mind a humility of good. LOL.

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(September 26, 2014 at 11:10 pm)Zidneya Wrote: This stamp might come handy.

I can't even imagine the kind of good I could do with this....