@darwanian lol yeah its clear but i didnt thought that you guys think the idea of God is that extreme like the example you mentioned
and i also want to ask you what is the kind of evidence you think will be satisfying for atheists to prove that there is God?

(June 21, 2010 at 6:06 pm)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: @darwanian lol yeah its clear but i didnt thought that you guys think the idea of that there is God is that extreme like the example you mentioned

Why not.. You should remember that to someone like me, the concept of God is absolutely no different from the concept of Zeus, Odin, Apollo, the tooth fairy, santa claus, Jesus, Moses, etc. etc. and they all have exactly the same chance of existing, i.e. practically zero

(June 21, 2010 at 6:06 pm)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: @darwanian lol yeah its clear but i didnt thought that you guys think the idea of God is that extreme like the example you mentioned
and i also want to ask you what is the kind of evidence you think will be satisfying for atheists to prove that there is God?

Why do you keep insisting we should be interested in disproving God? I'm not spending any of my time what-so-ever attempting to disprove the existence of an ambiguous concept, what i will do however is assess claims of the existence of such a being and then decide whether or not the claimant has met the burden of proof.

Sadly for you this god fella is imaginary, which would mean meeting your burden of proof is impossible.

But feel free to enjoy your delusion all the same...

(June 21, 2010 at 3:59 pm)mo3taz3nbar Wrote:

Quote:Conclusive proof that god exists, fact there is none, and that doesn't make 50% it makes, like 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%
Because what the bible and most religious books say have been proven to be false.

so the reason is not the lack of evidence its the lack of evidence plus the mistakes in the scriptures you have read. that makes more sense and that is what i meant by the reasons for being an atheist but i think that you just read the bible

Sorry mo3taz...the fact remains that all here HAVE read the bible, Qu'ran, torah and a plethora of other traditional texts (Upanishads etc)

We have been very curious and have read extensively so as to make firm decisions as to our point of view on the topic. Please stop treating us as though we are ignorant little children....we out grew that crap eons ago.

The burden of 'proof' is on YOU as YOU are making the claim of the existence of a deity / creature/ entity

Quite frankly mate I think you are just talking to yourself when you "pray" to this "god" of yours.

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(June 21, 2010 at 6:42 am)mo3taz3nbar Wrote:

(June 21, 2010 at 6:19 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote:

(June 21, 2010 at 6:15 am)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: plz guys am confirming again that this is not the reasons that made me believe. thats just the first stage i passed through which am interested to know from you wether there was answers for these questions in your opinion and some of these questions i found answers for later but i just want to know how you guys think from an atheist point of view

And we have answered you mo3taz...what is your issue here??

I am thinking that a lack of understanding english could be your issue.

who told you am talking to you?lol. am just confirming that so no one think that this is the main reasons of my beliefs i mentioned that in the main thread but i just wanted to put it as a post to be clear
my english is not that bad

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And I am talking to you (do have the decency to feel privileged - lol) Your english is NOT good, it is quite bad and bordering on offensive.

(June 21, 2010 at 6:42 am)mo3taz3nbar Wrote:

(June 21, 2010 at 5:07 am)Darwinian Wrote:

(June 21, 2010 at 3:51 am)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: I was born in a Muslim family

Say no more.

my parents is not religious no one was forcing anything on me and if they were having blind faith for any reason that was not suitable for me and thats why i started searching for reasons and understanding of different beliefs and believe me if i found that there is errors in islam or a prove that it is not from god i would at least changed my beliefs even if i dont tell anyone and of course would not become religious

Your search is commendable mo3taz...your english needs work though....unfortunately I am not versed in your language ...which is it by the way??

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(June 21, 2010 at 6:06 pm)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: @darwanian lol yeah its clear but i didnt thought that you guys think the idea of God is that extreme like the example you mentioned
and i also want to ask you what is the kind of evidence you think will be satisfying for atheists to prove that there is God?

Evidence??



The "guy" knocks on my door and inivite him in for a cuppa. "He" WILL wipe his bloody feet FIRST before doing so!!

Yeah...that should do it.

@KichigaiNeko i always thought that as you are saying about atheists knowing most skriptures but yet most of you here are saying ebrahamic god when god is diffirent in the 3 ebrahamic religions thats gave me the idea that you only read the bible. and you always guys accuse the Quran with things in the bible and the torah even in some atheist books or articles they do the same i hope that if someone have read the Quran to open a thread about that

(June 22, 2010 at 2:51 am)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: @KichigaiNeko i always thought that as you are saying about atheists knowing most skriptures but yet most of you here are saying ebrahamic god when god is diffirent in the 3 ebrahamic religions thats gave me the idea that you only read the bible. and you always guys accuse the Quran with things in the bible and the torah even in some atheist books or articles they do the same i hope that if someone have read the Quran to open a thread about that

Firstly, let's just tidy up your English ...hmm??? Here we go

Quote:I always thought that as you are saying about atheists knowing most scriptures; what I find confusing is that most of you here are speaking of an Abrahamic god. God is different in the 3 Abrahamic religions; this is what gave me the impression that you (meaning everyone on this forum) only read the Christian bible. The seeming fact that you guys always accuse the Quran with things in the bible and the torah; even in some atheist books and articles I find the same i hope that if someone have read the Quran to open a thread about that.

Sorry mo3taz....I hope I have not offended you but to us (of the English speaking persuasion) the above reconstruction of your post reads a bit better and I am hoping that we can make sense of your question.

And now to my reply....

The "Abrahamic God" of 'The Torah', 'The Q'ran' and 'The Bible' are considered one in the same. The name may be changed but the deity is the same desert god worshiped by the Semitic peoples of the Middle Eastern countries as opposed to deities worshiped by say: the Scandinavian countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse_mythology

Reading these texts as just a book one cannot help but come to several conclusions:

1. the tome was written by the victors of a war
2. Is an attempt to expand on Hammurabi's code - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Hammurabi -
3. Is a method for controlling the masses (the 'Semites are a stiff necked peoples' the 'Arabs are a small people a petty people' the 'rustics are an uneducated people'

Looking at these three "sacred texts" is enough to make any thinking person question the existence of this supposed deity. The records of rape, murder, plunder, abuse, slavery (which was standard at the time of writing these works), the purported "glory" of war and winning under this particular deity permeates all pages.

Quite enough to make a pacifist violently ill really. (Let alone an integrity centred atheist)

The accusations against the Q'ran are as valid as those posited against the Torah and the Bible....

What you fail to comprehend is that you have "infidel" = "outsiders" looking at this body of work and criticising it for what it is and what it says. By no means to say that atheists are taking the moral 'High Ground' BUT one cannot be blamed in the 21st Century to look at such works as out dated and irrelevant to today's tribalism. In other words...your 'holy text' is out of date.

Your Q'ran, along with any other 'sacred text' is woefully out of date and only survives as a curiosity and support to the fundamental principle that humans are STILL busy with Tribalism and not ready for anything more...let alone this 'kingdom of heaven' that the books bleat about.

Should you want to "enlighten the world" my friend I might suggest that you look to mating with an "infidel" ditching your 'holy book' and living a life of scepticism and wonder and not attributing it to anything more than the fact that it exists at all and you are alive to witness it. As far as science is concerned...(I personally do NOT worship at the feet of science) ...it is a wondrous tool for finding out just what the heck is out there and how it works...nothing more.

I am hoping this is of assistance to you my friend.

I would still like to know which language is your mother tongue so I can show you how ridiculous translators are....

And no ...you will never have me open a thread on the Q’ran as I do not think it is a book worthy of attention.

Quote:Sorry mo3taz...the fact remains that all here HAVE read the bible, Qu'ran, torah and a plethora of other traditional texts (Upanishads etc)

We have been very curious and have read extensively so as to make firm decisions as to our point of view on the topic. Please stop treating us as though we are ignorant little children....we out grew that crap eons ago.

untill now i didnt see any member in this forums who have any information about the Quran but you always use claims from other people that is not based on the Quran or from websites trying to mislead people by telling them wrong information. am not treating anyone as an ignorant little child but we all can have wrong information or lack of knowledge in some areas and at the end we are all sharing our opinions and increasing our knowledge by reasoning with each other

Quote:The "Abrahamic God" of 'The Torah', 'The Q'ran' and 'The Bible' are considered one in the same. The name may be changed but the deity is the same desert god worshiped by the Semitic peoples of the Middle Eastern countries as opposed to deities worshiped by say: the Scandinavian countries.

the name is not is not diffirent in the 3 religions but some non muslims that dont know arabic dont know that arab christians and jews say Allah as a translation for God and you can find it in the arabic scriptures(old and new testment)
if you consider that god is the same in the 3 religions you will be judging islam by what others add to their religion or scriptures (they end up imagining that god is like human being) but in fact the Quran is the preserved word of god(that contains the original of the torah and the bible) thats why there is a lot of different verses in the Quran saying to the jews and the christians to not say about God what they dont know and not to write the book by their hands and claim that this is from god

Quote:The accusations against the Q'ran are as valid as those posited against the Torah and the Bible....
What you fail to comprehend is that you have "infidel" = "outsiders" looking at this body of work and criticising it for what it is and what it says. By no means to say that atheists are taking the moral 'High Ground' BUT one cannot be blamed in the 21st Century to look at such works as out dated and irrelevant to today's tribalism. In other words...your 'holy text' is out of date.

Your Q'ran, along with any other 'sacred text' is woefully out of date and only survives as a curiosity and support to the fundamental principle that humans are STILL busy with Tribalism and not ready for anything more...let alone this 'kingdom of heaven' that the books bleat about.

i hope that your claims are based on verses from the Quran and you are not accusing islam by what you read in the bible or the torah and if your answer is yes i hope you can get me your evidence from the Quran

Quote:I would still like to know which language is your mother tongue so I can show you how ridiculous translators are....

my mother tongue is arabic and am not using translators

Quote:And no ...you will never have me open a thread on the Q’ran as I do not think it is a book worthy of attention.

if you are searching for the truth any book that claims its from god is worthy of attention and not only reading but also deep studying

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Quote:Why not.. You should remember that to someone like me, the concept of God is absolutely no different from the concept of Zeus, Odin, Apollo, the tooth fairy, santa claus, Jesus, Moses, etc. etc. and they all have exactly the same chance of existing, i.e. practically zero

http://www.sultan.org/articles/god.html

(June 22, 2010 at 7:21 am)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: if you are searching for the truth any book that claims its from god is worthy of attention and not only reading but also deep studying

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But it's not from god.

It is just another book written by men to control others.

(June 22, 2010 at 7:55 am)Zen Badger Wrote:

(June 22, 2010 at 7:21 am)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: if you are searching for the truth any book that claims its from god is worthy of attention and not only reading but also deep studying

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But it's not from god.

It is just another book written by men to control others.

Not to mention that there is no god. Just because some crazy (or lying) guy came out of a cave and said god talked to him, doesn't make any of it true.

Quote:But it's not from god.

It is just another book written by men to control others.

give me your reasons and evidence for this

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Quote:Not to mention that there is no god. Just because some crazy (or lying) guy came out of a cave and said god talked to him, doesn't make any of it true.

you can convince yourself of that and believe it without a reason but if you are really seeking the truth and want to know if there is god or not you have to study the scriptures and use logic and reasons to get an answer