(October 18, 2014 at 5:58 pm)Aoi Magi Wrote:

(October 18, 2014 at 5:49 pm)Lek Wrote: How about if you were one of those people who are living under an oppressive government or are persecuted daily? What if you were one of those who can't get enough food for themselves and their families and have no hope of climbing out of their despair. Maybe the best thing they can look forward to is dying and leaving their miserable existence.

Those really in that situation couldn't care less about god or intellectual debates about the meaning of life. They are too busy with their daily lives.

(October 18, 2014 at 5:49 pm)Lek Wrote: They're probably more interested in knowing why they are here and if there is any hope for them beyond this world that they're in.

The answer is no in both cases. And the answer will vary depending on religion, and none of those answers will solve their predicament.
They are in that situation because they are too stupid to unite and claim their rights, they have hope in this world provided they can find the courage to face their truth.

You sound like a spoiled brat. Have you ever been around desperate people and actually talked with them? Boy do you need to get out into the world and put some faces on those "stupid" people. I'll tell you from first hand experience. They need jobs, shelter, food and clothing. They also want to know that they are somebody, and they have hope in God.

They need things doesn't mean god will provide for them, neither can we, till they decide to help themselves.
Everybody wants to be known as a somebody, doesn't mean you can lie to them. Nobody becomes a somebody without taking action.
Their hope in god is more proof why rest of the society is losing their hope in your god.

Get out there and see the world for what it is, those people will continue to suffer as long as they hope a sky daddy would save them. Their suffering will end after they take matters in their own hands. Our history is proof enough of that...

(October 18, 2014 at 6:46 pm)Aoi Magi Wrote: They need things doesn't mean god will provide for them, neither can we, till they decide to help themselves.
Everybody wants to be known as a somebody, doesn't mean you can lie to them. Nobody becomes a somebody without taking action.
Their hope in god is more proof why rest of the society is losing their hope in your god.

Get out there and see the world for what it is, those people will continue to suffer as long as they hope a sky daddy would save them. Their suffering will end after they take matters in their own hands. Our history is proof enough of that...

Actually, christianity is growing and more people are gaining hope in my God. So your remedy for the poor and downtrodden of the world is not to help feed, clothe and educate them or to tell them they are worthwhile, but tell to tell them to unite and pull themselves up by their bootstraps? I agree that we should take responsibility for ourselves and should strive for better lives, but at the same time, everybody needs a helping hand. We provide the immediate needs while helping to establish a base from which they can grow self-sufficient. Christianity teaches that we are to help the poor and that help comes in many different forms, most importantly, our ultimate reliance on God for everything we have. People are physical and spiritual beings and they need both physical and spiritual things, and that's what we strive to provide.

(October 19, 2014 at 12:55 pm)Lek Wrote: Actually, christianity is growing and more people are gaining hope in my God.

And your source for the claim is...?

(October 19, 2014 at 12:55 pm)Lek Wrote: So your remedy for the poor and downtrodden of the world is not to help feed, clothe and educate them or to tell them they are worthwhile, but tell to tell them to unite and pull themselves up by their bootstraps?

No, those are part of the actions WE can and should take as humans. But unless they also decide to help themselves, all our help will be useless in the end.

(October 19, 2014 at 12:55 pm)Lek Wrote: Christianity teaches that we are to help the poor and that help comes in many different forms, most importantly, our ultimate reliance on God for everything we have. People are physical and spiritual beings and they need both physical and spiritual things, and that's what we strive to provide.

Those who don't follow christianity are also helping. One doesn't need religion to help another. Also religion on it's own is of no help, without the human intervention.

(October 19, 2014 at 1:29 pm)Aoi Magi Wrote: nd your source for the claim is...?

http://www.pewforum.org/2011/12/19/globa...nity-exec/

Quote:No, those are part of the actions WE can and should take as humans. But unless they also decide to help themselves, all our help will be useless in the end.

We agree.

Quote:Those who don't follow christianity are also helping. One doesn't need religion to help another. Also religion on it's own is of no help, without the human intervention.

Many of those who don't follow christianity are also helping people in need, but they're only helping in the physical capacity. People also need help in the spiritual capacity. We provide both. We are "Christ's hands and feet" and are the human intervention.

(October 18, 2014 at 6:18 pm)Lek Wrote:

(October 18, 2014 at 5:58 pm)Aoi Magi Wrote: Those really in that situation couldn't care less about god or intellectual debates about the meaning of life. They are too busy with their daily lives.

The answer is no in both cases. And the answer will vary depending on religion, and none of those answers will solve their predicament.
They are in that situation because they are too stupid to unite and claim their rights, they have hope in this world provided they can find the courage to face their truth.

.. I'll tell you from first hand experience. They need jobs, shelter, food and clothing. They also want to know that they are somebody, and they have hope in God.

Sure, they need real help, just not imaginary being's help. If you promised them meaning and hope from Superman, Batman, or Spongebob Squarepants, the end effect would be the same, none.

(October 18, 2014 at 10:47 am)sipurtov Wrote: Hi All,

So Obviously the Bible and god ways are full of evil deeds, and EVIL agenda
Slaves, murders and much more

Some Religious person would say,
Yeah but think of a child that sees a doctor cutting a man legs to save his life.
So like us the child lack of understanding the big picture.

Please give smart way to explain this comparison

Thanks

There's a difference between surgery on a leg and genocide.

One important factor is that no one dies.

I have found this helpful:

http://atheismandme.com/the-vastness-of-...rspective/

(October 18, 2014 at 5:35 pm)Lek Wrote:

(October 18, 2014 at 4:50 pm)Aoi Magi Wrote: You do realize that most of the atheists here started off as Christians, right? And something "science cannot explain" isn't god by default, ever heard of "god-of-the-gaps"?

Yeah. Isn't kind of like "science of the gaps"--"I don't know how the cosmos came about, but we'll discover that some day." Or "You think that you experience God, but you really don't. You're just crazy or lying because that's impossible." Or "The cancer didn't really just go away. It was just a physical abnormality or the person is lying because it's impossible."

Don't be absurd. We simply don't claim to know that which is not known.

And you mischaracterize a skeptic's view - are you dishonest or genuinely stupid?

(October 19, 2014 at 5:51 pm)Chas Wrote:

(October 18, 2014 at 5:35 pm)Lek Wrote: Yeah. Isn't kind of like "science of the gaps"--"I don't know how the cosmos came about, but we'll discover that some day." Or "You think that you experience God, but you really don't. You're just crazy or lying because that's impossible." Or "The cancer didn't really just go away. It was just a physical abnormality or the person is lying because it's impossible."

Don't be absurd. We simply don't claim to know that which is not known.

And you mischaracterize a skeptic's view - are you dishonest or genuinely stupid?

"I don't know" is a perfectly acceptable response. It doesn't automatically mean "Goddidit".

And cancer going into remission for unknown reasons has been recorded and the reason for it is not known in all cases. This doesn't mean (see paragraph one, above).