(December 3, 2014 at 8:38 pm)Beccs Wrote:

(December 3, 2014 at 8:36 pm)Heywood Wrote: Grand Jury decides not to indict the cop that used a choke hold that resulted in the death of Eric Gardner.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/03/justice/ne...?hpt=hp_t1

To me this seems like negligent homicide. Do they not have laws criminalizing negligent homicide in New York State?

We agree on something.

Especially since the coroner called it a homicide.

Just because it is homicide doesn't mean it is criminal. Physician assisted suicide is really homicide. Killing in self defense is homicide. Killing an enemy soldier in war is homicide.

When a coroner calls a death homicide all it means is one human beings death was caused by another human being. It makes no statement about the criminal nature or lack thereof of the death.

I don't think the cop meant to kill Gardner...but he did and I don't see how it was lawful. Last time I got a speeding ticket...I certainly had no intention of speeding....but I was certainly guilty of speeding and paid my ticket.

Maybe this falls under the wide latitude we give cops that JennyA referred to in the Ferguson thread.

(December 3, 2014 at 9:01 pm)Heywood Wrote: Maybe this falls under the wide latitude we give cops that JennyA referred to in the Ferguson thread.

Quite possibly, and if what happened in Ferguson (as well as elsewhere) is any indication, it's quite possibly gone too far. I for one am sick of heavy-handed policing.

(December 3, 2014 at 8:42 pm)Exian Wrote: So, this is a homicide- an unlawful killing of one person by another.

Homicide just means a person was killed by another person. If the cop had shot him in self-defense it would still be homicide. The "criminally negligent" part is the important part, it implies that the cop either did not follow correct procedure or used excessive force to subdue the victim. I don't know if that was the charge that the DA was seeking, assuming he wasn't just going through the motions in the hopes of avoiding an indictment.

(December 3, 2014 at 8:51 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: I don't understand the jury's decision. Unlike the Ferguson case, this was a really easy indictment, IMO...

Was the jury instructed to let it go to the federal level, maybe?

The Fed's do not have jurisdiction to prosecute a homicide that did not evolve federal personnel, did not occur on federal property, did involve the crossing of state lines.

The Feds can prosecute civil rights violations....but that is not the same crime as homicide.

You are correct ( for once) Woodie.

This cop has gotten away with murder.

Use of the choke hold has been banned by the NYPD since 1993. Apparently, it is not as efficient as shooting them.

No, I know that, but it's going to be interesting to see how they deal with the civil rights case that will almost inevitably come out. I just wonder if the federal government has a bigger-picture thing in mind.

(December 3, 2014 at 8:43 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Don't know, but NYPD forbids the use of choke holds for very good reason. I don't know much about the background of this story, but on the surface it sounds like the suspect wasn't resisting (any more than anyone deprived of oxygen would). I'll note that it appears pretty hard to get an indictment of a cop for an on-duty incident - even when department policy is violated and someone dies as a result.

It is hard to get an indictment because the legal standard for a cop really is different than for the rest of us. Varies from state to state but often reckless action, not merely negligent is required, and in addition to self defense you get reasonably prevent escape and so on and so on. Some of these standards are necessary to let cops do their jobs which do involve dealing with violent people, but others are not.

(December 3, 2014 at 11:39 pm)Jenny A Wrote:

(December 3, 2014 at 8:43 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Don't know, but NYPD forbids the use of choke holds for very good reason. I don't know much about the background of this story, but on the surface it sounds like the suspect wasn't resisting (any more than anyone deprived of oxygen would). I'll note that it appears pretty hard to get an indictment of a cop for an on-duty incident - even when department policy is violated and someone dies as a result.

It is hard to get an indictment because the legal standard for a cop really is different than for the rest of us. Varies from state to state but often reckless action, not merely negligent is required, and in addition to self defense you get reasonably prevent escape and so on and so on. Some of these standards are necessary to let cops do their jobs which do involve dealing with violent people, but others are not.

In short - "Some animals are more equal than others."

(December 4, 2014 at 12:10 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:

(December 3, 2014 at 11:39 pm)Jenny A Wrote: It is hard to get an indictment because the legal standard for a cop really is different than for the rest of us. Varies from state to state but often reckless action, not merely negligent is required, and in addition to self defense you get reasonably prevent escape and so on and so on. Some of these standards are necessary to let cops do their jobs which do involve dealing with violent people, but others are not.

In short - "Some animals are more equal than others."

Pretty much.

(December 3, 2014 at 8:42 pm)Exian Wrote: So, this is a homicide- an unlawful killing of one person by another.

I just want to through out there that the term homicide has a broader definition than this. The unlawful killing of one person by another is a homicide not all homicides are unlawful.

Quote:The killing of one human being by another human being.

Although the term homicide is sometimes used synonymously with murder, homicide is broader in scope than murder. Murder is a form of criminal homicide; other forms of homicide might not constitute criminal acts. These homicides are regarded as justified or excusable. For example, individuals may, in a necessary act of Self-Defense, kill a person who threatens them with death or serious injury, or they may be commanded or authorized by law to kill a person who is a member of an enemy force or who has committed a serious crime. Typically, the circumstances surrounding a killing determine whether it is criminal. The intent of the killer usually determines whether a criminal homicide is classified as murder or Manslaughter and at what degree.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/homicide