(January 2, 2009 at 2:24 am)FutureAndAHope Wrote: What would make me change my mind and become an athiest, only if I forgot the Miracles and comunication God has had with me over the years. Because I know God has spoken to me I can never become an athiest. I would be untrue to my self if I denied all the communication.

This is a good example of blind faith.

Have you ever wondered that this gawd thing you hear is just a crazy imagination?

This is delusional. I can see that, and so can many others here.
You are hearing something talk to you? This does sound a little crazy you know.

Have you ever tried to question your views? To be open minded, you should look and consider other possibilities. This includes looking at the possibility that gawd does not exist.

Now there is no evidence for anything supernatural and so there is no reason to believe it to be true.

(January 4, 2009 at 9:43 am)CoxRox Wrote: FutureAndAhope, would you pray for me? Would you ask that I would know for sure if there is a God and if Jesus is who he says he is? I'm a bit embarassed asking this directly on this forum, but I ask nevertheless.

p.s, I've 'asked' this myself many times over the years but never seem to get an 'answer'.

many thanks.

No worries, have prayed already, will get a bit more serious on the praying when I make the time. All I can suggest is while you are waiting for an answer make your life as right with God as you can. "Let justice run down like water, and righteousness like a mighty stream". - Amos 5:24

---

Seek good and not evil, that you may live; So the LORD God of hosts will be with you, As you have spoken. Hate evil, love good; establish justice - Amos 5:14-15

I read your posts and I get the feeling that you believe that I should be able to solve all the worlds problems by prayer. To be honest I don't know why God does not answer every prayer, I always pray that wars will cease and the sick will be healed. I pray for every sick person I see, but I do not always see them healed. This does not mean God can not answer, for he does answer some prayers. He gives guidance and direction he told me specifically that he wanted me to give more to the poor, which helps those in need. As an example of him giving direction to me directly:

I had an online profile that kept being spammed by an online sex site. It was really annoying, as I was trying to live a pure life and was being bombarded with all sorts of filth. I decided maybe I should sue the site for unsolicited advertising. I was really uncomfortable with the idea of suing, and felt troubled. I prayed and asked God what should I do. Latter that day I opened up my bible to prepare a message for speaking to a Muslim, I stuck my finger on a verse and it was:

No, already it is altogether a defect in you, that you have lawsuits one with another. Why not rather take wrong? Why not rather be defrauded? - 1Co 6:7

So I knew instantly God was saying to me not to try suing. So I knew Gods plans were better than mine, so I saved myself a lot of trouble. If we all knew God's plans the world would not be in such a mess. By leaving God out of your life you are not living by his good plan, some reject him to such an extent that they make other peoples lives a living hell. You can be the Super man you mentioned, or a part of it at least by obeying God and joining me in praying for peace or sickness or poverty.

But why should we need to pray at all?

Does God look down at a sick and dying child and say to himself "I'm not going to do anything unless someone prays to me for help. And even then I may just ignore them?"

If that's the case then what's the point? And surely if God is omniscient then he already knows the outcome of all events and so prayer is pretty pointless as you can't possibly influence him can you?

(January 5, 2009 at 7:01 am)Darwinian Wrote: But why should we need to pray at all?

Does God look down at a sick and dying child and say to himself "I'm not going to do anything unless someone prays to me for help. And even then I may just ignore them?"

If that's the case then what's the point? And surely if God is omniscient then he already knows the outcome of all events and so prayer is pretty pointless as you can't possibly influence him can you?

Well I started agnostic.. when to my friends church out of curiousity - including going on the camps.. the religion teacher was weirdo and was agnostic the whole time.. went to the lutheran school and for a part of my high schooling i got a lil depressed cause dad went overseas to look after his sick mum.. the whole being agnostic in a lutheran school was getting to me.. so i'm like might aswell join 'em... and i dunno it felt innocent enough and my belief was private and never hurt anybody.. i think i got pissed off that nobody really sang in the morning chapel we had every day.. so i used to sing the loudest thinking who gives a fuck the lord will know i am singing lol. and i thought whateva they were praying was a load of crap during the service so i used to pray my own prayers. and it helped. i am i suppose agnostic atheist but i seem to be heading down the path to being an atheist now. even though i am atheist i still pray in a sense because it helps.. i just pray to a different person.. i dont pray to god. i just pray to what i call 'my angels' - those that have past away of whom i love. although, in reality i think they have moved on but i still pray to them anyway.. lol.
When dad passed away I saw this cat that was near me and it was looking at me in a particular way rofl.. so, i thought that maybe it was dad.. i went to pat it but then it ran away.. so i'm like fuck that shit. i aint gonna go chasing after every animal to see if it is my dad lol.
I don't think there is little these days that would convert me to believe.. I might have moments during mental weekness but other then that not really.. even if I saw an image or could hear could i would just think its me going crazy. Dreams can slightly whack me out though. Possibly if the dream was strong enough I might.

(January 5, 2009 at 5:13 am)FutureAndAHope Wrote: No worries, have prayed already, will get a bit more serious on the praying when I make the time. All I can suggest is while you are waiting for an answer make your life as right with God as you can. "Let justice run down like water, and righteousness like a mighty stream". - Amos 5:24

---

Seek good and not evil, that you may live; So the LORD God of hosts will be with you, As you have spoken. Hate evil, love good; establish justice - Amos 5:14-15

thanks very much

---

(January 5, 2009 at 7:01 am)Darwinian Wrote: But why should we need to pray at all?

Does God look down at a sick and dying child and say to himself "I'm not going to do anything unless someone prays to me for help. And even then I may just ignore them?"

If that's the case then what's the point? And surely if God is omniscient then he already knows the outcome of all events and so prayer is pretty pointless as you can't possibly influence him can you?

You make some good points Darwinian. I don't think God (if there is one) is actively ignoring us, but it sure seems like that, hence why I hardly ever pray. You are right that He would know what we are going to pray for before we do, 'if' He is omniscient. It doesn't alter the here and now for us who are in 'time'. Then again, it could all be bullshit, but I'll pray anyway (occasionally).

See, the problem with saying 'god answers some prayers' is that statistically. He answers exactly the same ammount of prayers that normal, mundane situations solve by themselves.

If everytime I hear someone walking down the stairs to my basement I say 'they will come into my room' I will be right a certain percent of the time. This does not mean I am psychic. If you pray for every sick guy who find to get better and a few get better, this does not mean prayer or god heals people. It means a certain percentage of people will recover from sickness.

And these days if you skip prayer and just get on with the medicine your odds of recovering are pretty damn good.

Well said Demonaura. I'll add that there's also the placebo effect.

If you believe Prayer will help you that is...

A study on the matter of prayer pointed the other direction though - that those who knew they were being prayed for actually did worse on average than those who weren't prayed for at all. And those who were prayed for and didn't know about it did the same as those who weren't prayed for at all - oh! I wonder why! lol.

There's info on the survey in TGD.
evf

(January 5, 2009 at 6:53 am)FutureAndAHope Wrote: I read your posts and I get the feeling that you believe that I should be able to solve all the worlds problems by prayer. To be honest I don't know why God does not answer every prayer, I always pray that wars will cease and the sick will be healed. I pray for every sick person I see, but I do not always see them healed. This does not mean God can not answer, for he does answer some prayers. He gives guidance and direction he told me specifically that he wanted me to give more to the poor, which helps those in need. As an example of him giving direction to me directly:

I had an online profile that kept being spammed by an online sex site. It was really annoying, as I was trying to live a pure life and was being bombarded with all sorts of filth. I decided maybe I should sue the site for unsolicited advertising. I was really uncomfortable with the idea of suing, and felt troubled. I prayed and asked God what should I do. Latter that day I opened up my bible to prepare a message for speaking to a Muslim, I stuck my finger on a verse and it was:

No, already it is altogether a defect in you, that you have lawsuits one with another. Why not rather take wrong? Why not rather be defrauded? - 1Co 6:7

So I knew instantly God was saying to me not to try suing. So I knew Gods plans were better than mine, so I saved myself a lot of trouble. If we all knew God's plans the world would not be in such a mess. By leaving God out of your life you are not living by his good plan, some reject him to such an extent that they make other peoples lives a living hell. You can be the Super man you mentioned, or a part of it at least by obeying God and joining me in praying for peace or sickness or poverty.

I begin by stating what I say all the time...your god probably, almost 100% certainly, doesn't exist!
In the extreme possibility that you are right, the kindest explanation as to why not all prayers are answered is that god is capricious. The most unkind is that he is an utter bastard. Whichever, a creature surely deserving more contempt than devotion.
As to what divine guidance you say you receive, let's just say I think you are deluded.
And finally, no thank you, I decline your kind invitation to join in your delusions.

(January 5, 2009 at 3:35 pm)bozo Wrote: As to what divine guidance you say you receive, let's just say I think you are deluded.

I'm not sure you undestood my example but it was certainly not delusion. I was wondering if I should sue someone, I prayed about it, opened up my bible randomly selected a verse by sticking my finger on it, and it was the only verse in the whole bible on law suits, and it said "It is wrong for you to take out law suits against one another". How many verses are there in the whole bible 100,000's at least. You are deluded if you attribute that to anything other than God.