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MERGED: The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ (Part 1) & (Part 2)
RE: The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus (Part 2)
Quote:So in closing, it is because of ALL these reasons why I conclude that the Gospels were all written by either the disciples, or friends of the disciples.

Quote:The Bible is filled with discrepancies, many of them irreconcilable
contradictions. Moses did not write the Pentateuch (the first five books of the Old Testament) and Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John did not write the Gospels. There are other books that did not make it into the Bible that at one time or another were considered canonical—other Gospels, for example, allegedly written by Jesus’ followers Peter, Thomas, and Mary. The Exodus probably did not happen as described in the Old Testament. The conquest of the Promised Land is probably based on legend. The Gospels are at odds on numerous points and contain nonhistorical material. It is hard to know whether Moses ever existed and what, exactly, the historical Jesus taught. The historical narratives of the Old Testament are filled with legendary fabrications and the book of Acts in the New Testament contains historically unreliable information about the life and teachings of Paul. Many of the books of the New Testament are pseudonymous—written not by the apostles but by later writers claiming to be apostles. The list goes on.

Bart Ehrman Jesus Interrupted pg. 5-6

Your bible is a pile of shit.

And you are just one more asshole spouting it.
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RE: The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus (Part 2)
All you did in part 1 was produce unreliable evidence and make bogus arguments.

You're now trying to build an impossibly shaped castle on a foundation of quicksand.

You pre suppose this stuff is true. That's all you need to say.
Feel free to send me a private message.
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RE: The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus (Part 2)
(December 11, 2014 at 10:25 pm)His_Majesty Wrote:


Tldr: [Image: giphy.gif]
(August 21, 2017 at 11:31 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: "I'm not a troll"
Religious Views: He gay

0/10

Hammy Wrote:and we also have a sheep on our bed underneath as well
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RE: The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus (Part 2)
Also, go watch Deist Paladin's dissection of the gospels, and try to refute it if you dare.
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.

Index of useful threads and discussions
Index of my best videos
Quickstart guide to the forum
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RE: The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus (Part 2)
(December 11, 2014 at 10:25 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: So, now that I'’ve successfully made a case for and defended the historical evidence supporting Jesus of Nazareth'’s existence in human history,
Sorry to burst your bubble, but you did no such thing.
However, I (and others here) am willing to grant you the possibility of that existence and work from there.

(December 11, 2014 at 10:25 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: The authorship of the Gospels: Who wrote them?

So how do we know who wrote the books? Well, what we have is testimony from the early church, men that were second generation apostles. The authorship of the books were uniform, unanimous according to the early Church, and there is no evidence of any competitors of authorship, no bickering, and no quarreling over who wrote the books.
There are, however, competing gospels... like the gnostic gospels... or just all the apocryphal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament_apocrypha.
I'm sure you've studied them all thoroughly and have your reasons to dismiss each and every one, except for the canonical ones.

Also, we have the dead sea scrolls... which reveal something about those times... like The Teacher of Righteousness!!
Hmmm.... a teacher, knowledgeable of the scriptures, a "counselor to the king", "dissatisfied with the religious sects in Jerusalem, and in reaction, founded a "crisis cult". While amassing a following, the Teacher (and his followers) claimed he was the fulfillment of various Biblical prophecies, with an emphasis on those found in Isaiah. The Teacher was eventually killed by the religious leadership in Jerusalem, and his followers hailed him as messianic figure who had been exalted to the presence of God's throne."

Sounds familiar?
See how it IS possible that such a person was around and was revered by the people?... he was just a century before what the christian church wishes to acknowledge, but who cares... that time period is so muddied that a century is of no consequence.


(December 11, 2014 at 10:25 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: It seems that the authors of the books were a given. If the early Church were so hell bent on giving “credibility” to the Christian faith and wanted to give potential converts more reasons to join the gang based on authorship, why would the early Church attribute names of the books (particularly the Gospels, in this case) to less respected men?
Possibly because they were obviously not written by any of the apostles themselves " and jesus did this miracle and all the apostles were amazed"... clearly a 3rd person account.... so a friendly 3rd person must be manufactured... a friend of the apostles, a disciple of an apostle, a meeting with one of the apostles...
From a position of relative reliability, anything can then be told about the original... errr... teacher.


(December 11, 2014 at 10:25 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: Another point that can be made, a point that will likely be carried over to part 3 but is worth mentioning here...is the fact that whoever wrote the Gospels must have been living during the time, and in that region. How do we know this? Because only someone living during that time would know certain FACTS regarding the time and location...these facts include cultural customs, historical figures, and even the "nature" of things during the time.
Think about it.... Harry Potter lived in London, he visited the London Zoo, he went on the train to school from Paddington train station...
All this written by someone who obviously knew Harry and his environment.
Blimey! Wizards exist! There is a ministry of magic in the UK and in several other countries! There are evil people with magical powers!
We're doomed!!!!!


(December 11, 2014 at 10:25 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: And last, all four Gospels are of the BIOGRAPHICAL genre. What is a biography? According to Merriam-Webster.com

Biography: the story of a real person's life written by someone other than that person

All four Gospels fit the definition, as they are all the story of a real person's life written by someone other than that person.
"real"... you keep using that word...

(December 11, 2014 at 10:25 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: Now, as mentioned previously, the vast majority of all scholars agree that the historical evidence points toward a historical Jesus (the man)..and if the Gospels are biographies of Jesus, they could have only been written by someone that knew Jesus personally, as there are to many details regarding Jesus' travels, his sermons, his actions....to many details that someone that never walked with him would know.
You see... there was this teacher... he taught people... people listened... some wrote it down to remember it better.
The teachings got handed down... the name of the teacher morphed a bit.

Also... Harry got hit by an Avada Kedavra spell, went to some sort of wizard limbo where he met the dead Dumbledore who told him he must return to the world of the living.... and so he did.
Only those closest to Harry would know of this detail as he would have to tell them in order for them to write about it.

(December 11, 2014 at 10:25 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: Have you all ever watched a crime television show where a person gives details that "only the killer would know"...well, the authors of the Gospels gives narratives that only the disciples would know. Only someone that was there would have known that kind of information? What information? ANY INFORMATION.
Any... indeed... that is why the Harry Potter books are biographies of a real person....

I wonder... can I say the same thing about Bilbo Baggins?

(December 11, 2014 at 10:25 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: 3. Gospel of Luke: the preface states "Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled[a] among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word."
That right there is the mark of the con.
And your present day blindness to it only attests to how well the con must have worked 2000 years ago.

(December 11, 2014 at 10:25 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: So in closing, it is because of ALL these reasons why I conclude that the Gospels were all written by either the disciples, or friends of the disciples. So now, between of parts 1 and 2, we can conclude that Jesus existed as a historical person, and that his biography was written by his friends, or friends of his friend...either way, reliable testimony nevertheless.

Or not.
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RE: The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus (Part 2)
Two parts in...pages and pages...just to say "Well fellas, I've got this book...you see...."

-Don't give a shit.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus (Part 2)
(December 11, 2014 at 10:25 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: ...The authorship of the Gospels: Who wrote them?...
So in closing, it is because of ALL these reasons why I conclude that the Gospels were all written by either the disciples, or friends of the disciples. So now, between of parts 1 and 2, we can conclude that Jesus existed as a historical person, and that his biography was written by his friends, or friends of his friend...either way, reliable testimony nevertheless.

Two videos on the subject of whether the authors of the gospels were reliable as eye witnesses:








Rob, you read my mind. Smile
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"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
...      -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
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...       -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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RE: The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus (Part 2)
can we get a wrap on this post because.
2 thousand + years later no sign of jesus and the end of the world prophecy dated in the bible was a sham.
and yet there is no historical proof of jesus and if jesus was a real person he had mental issues.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today. 


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RE: The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus (Part 2)
(December 11, 2014 at 10:45 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Didn't read.

I ain't losing no sleep over it, partner Cool Shades
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RE: The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus (Part 2)
If they had left in the Gospel of Thomas, the Bible would be a bit of fun to read.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."

-Stephen Jay Gould
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