The next step as after I was a believer, and began to fall into the trap of religion (worshiping the method of worship rather than God.)

http://atheistforums.org/thread-13378.html

Oh, you visited hell? I see.

The whole fire and brimstone idea of hell can be a big sticking point, especially if you believe Yahweh is meant to be a good person. I have a few others on top of that. Once I stripped away all that didn't sit well with me, and realized some big things I agreed with didn't even originate from the bible/torah, I just decided I can't be a christian. I'm still a good person, but I just don't worship any gods.

I'm just not sure why my fellow atheist might do something similar, but still convert to christianity.

I've heard this quite a few times on the atheist experience, and it seems to fall into one of two categories. Firstly, someone who has had some really bad event happen to them or someone close to them, and something incredible happened to turn it around. They end up attributing it to God. Yahweh in particular, somehow.

The second lot are ones who are trying to gain credibility as being critical thinkers, to add weight to their theism. Doesn't work, as they quickly show how little critical thinking they have when they try to give an argument.

(December 21, 2014 at 12:04 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote:

(December 21, 2014 at 11:55 am)Drich Wrote: I can say after nearly 15000 posts here and other websites in the last 8 or 9 years I can Honestly say there is not a topic about God atheism or religion In General that I have not researched.

Now you can pretend that I just shoot from the hip because I lead with the simple explaination first, but on any topic if you wish we can wade in to the deep end at any point. If I lead with the simple it is so everyone has the oppertunity to have the same understanding.

I do not have a need to toot my own horn just because I have spent hours reading and researching, more often times I put in hours of research so I can simplify a precept accurately.

I'm still waiting to hear your logic in accepting and rejecting, solely on the exclusive authority of Church councils, which books are divine and which are not, while at the same time rejecting the exclusive authority of the Church. But if you don't really want to confront that issue, again, I would understand, and besides, I too am interested---like the others---in hearing what powerful arguments and the evidence in support of them persuaded you from your genuine skepticism.

It's really simple, or rather I will start out with a very simple explaination.

It is completely on God to provide continuity of Scripture if He certifies continuity of scripture in the book itself (which He does.) That or He must offer forgiveness for following an incomplete or book in error, or He must confirm or make changes to scripture in an authoritiave way as per the discovery of something like the Dead Sea scrolls.

To put it simply, "we" don't have to ensure sola scriptura, that's God's job. Either that or forgive us for following sola scriptura as that is what we have been told to believe/follow per the bible itself.

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(December 21, 2014 at 12:05 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Oh, you visited hell? I see.

Just The gates.

I can get behind the idea that it's the obligation of Yahweh to come to us if he wants to have a proper relationship. I could do with or without him, as I have enough on my plate already. He has all the time int he world, while I have precious few to be chasing wild geese.

He's made not the slightest effort to come to me. If anything, he's shown me how shit this world is by giving me a brain that can truly appreciate and analyse the horrors that go on.

(December 21, 2014 at 12:13 pm)Drich Wrote: It is completely on God to provide continuity of Scripture if He certifies continuity of scripture in the book itself (which He does.) That or He must offer forgiveness for following an incomplete or book in error, or He must confirm or make changes to scripture in an authoritiave way as per the discovery of something like the Dead Sea scrolls.

See, that only works, if you're willingly accept the earth only to be some thousands years old. If you're not, and I'm certainly not willing to accept that, god would have to be one of the most lazy bastards ever to exist. Billions of years and he only bothers to make an appearance some 3000 years ago. To some half nomadic desert dwellers with no culture to speak of compared to the empires sourrounding them at the time.

I see a whole ton of evidence that contradicts a powerful, loving being running the planet. What evidence? Virtually everything. This place is fucked up. You have to be a professional confirmation bias-ist to not notice.

(December 21, 2014 at 12:17 pm)Chad32 Wrote: I can get behind the idea that it's the obligation of Yahweh to come to us if he wants to have a proper relationship. I could do with or without him, as I have enough on my plate already. He has all the time int he world, while I have precious few to be chasing wild geese.

Then ask for verification, ask to do whatever it takes to give you the evidence you need.

Just know "whatever it takes" usally means hardship beyond the point of getting help from anyone. God will usally take you past the point of no return and then bring you back. It just depends on your heart.

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(December 21, 2014 at 12:19 pm)robvalue Wrote: He's made not the slightest effort to come to me. If anything, he's shown me how shit this world is by giving me a brain that can truly appreciate and analyse the horrors that go on.

He didn't for me till I asked sought and knocked as outlined in luke 11