How do I know? Because he said so??

He certainly hasn't said that he didn't lie in the first place.

You think it's indoctrination. I see all sorts of indoctrination. By scientists; atheists; Christians.... It's all bad. I have no idea if the op is talking about his own bias or actual indoctrination. All I know is that he's telling us that he's living a lie. Unnecessarily. Fess up and come clean, is my advice. Stand up against injustice. Don't go along with it because that makes you part of the problem.

(December 26, 2014 at 9:46 am)fr0d0 Wrote: How do I know? Because he said so??

He certainly hasn't said that he didn't lie in the first place.

You think it's indoctrination. I see all sorts of indoctrination. By scientists; atheists; Christians.... It's all bad. I have no idea if the op is talking about his own bias or actual indoctrination. All I know is that he's telling us that he's living a lie. Unnecessarily. Fess up and come clean, is my advice. Stand up against injustice. Don't go along with it because that makes you part of the problem.

Science is indoctrination? Yea, that is why we know the earth is not flat and revolves around the sun. That is why we got to the moon, because it had nothing to do with testing and observation, it was simply humans going around indoctrinating people with evil science. Why are you using the product of science like a computer if you hate science?

If you want to say that humans have used science to do bad things, sure, like make weapons, and corporate goons who hired assholes to justify keeping led in gas, sure. And corporate goons who try to use it to deny climate change, again sure.

But science is not a person, it is a method, it is the tool. You cannot blame the tool for what humans do with it.

DNA blows the virgin birth story away and rightfully puts it in the myth category. Rigor mortis blows away the idea that humans can come back from the dead.

The bible is still and old book of myth like the Koran and Torah and Talmud along with the Vedas, and none of them are scientific textbooks, never were. Our human ability to do bad things does not negate the tool of scientific method.

No, scientists can indoctrinate. That is, teach that science says more than science does. Teach children that science says there is no God, for example, when science says no such thing. Same with all indoctrination... It's teaching something which isn't true.

I love science. I'm awed by it, and respect it absolutely. I never knowingly compromise it.

Yes it's the humans which misrepresent it. Just like you misrepresent faith.

"Science is indoctrination" is an utterly ridiculous false equivocation. No one is forced to believe science, no one is beaten or killed for not accepting it. People are not ostracised from their community because they don't "believe" it. Also, it is taught through reason. It is not presented as fact with no explanation, coupled with threats for even questioning it.

I'm afraid you need to really rethink your arguments.

Science proves that science is great :p Science works, demonstrating its truth. Only a paranoid maniac would declare otherwise. Religion doesn't even get out of the starting blocks. It provides nothing that can't be achieved just as well without the religious element.

(December 26, 2014 at 10:49 am)robvalue Wrote: "Science is indoctrination" is an utterly ridiculous false equivocation.

I agree completely.

Moving on...

At the moment it's chic to be atheist. Supposedly you're more intelligent if you're atheist, after all Einstein and Sagan were atheist. It's a fad and it won't last.

A clear case of monkey see monkey do.

(December 27, 2014 at 10:55 am)strawdawg Wrote: At the moment it's chic to be atheist. Supposedly you're more intelligent of you're atheist, after all Einstein and Sagan were atheist. It's a fad and it won't last.

A clear case of monkey see monkey do.

troll efficienty: 20%, more work needed.

I really hope you're not being serious.

(December 27, 2014 at 11:16 am)robvalue Wrote: I really hope you're not being serious.

Things run in cycles. It's the way the earth is. Everything repeats it'sself. It's winter and there will be another winter.Saturday and there will be another saturday. Women have cycles. Being a atheist is popular now but it will fade only to repeat its'self. Native americans believe life was a circle. When you're at the top of the circle you're doing great when you're at the bottom you're at the lowest point. At the bottom of the circle is not the place to be.....except, you have no place to go but up.

(December 27, 2014 at 11:29 am)strawdawg Wrote:

(December 27, 2014 at 11:16 am)robvalue Wrote: I really hope you're not being serious.

Things run in cycles. It's the way the earth is. Everything repeats it'sself. It's winter and there will be another winter.Saturday and there will be another saturday. Women have cycles. Being a atheist is popular now but it will fade only to repeat its'self. Native americans believe life was a circle. When you're at the top of the circle you're doing great when you're at the bottom you're at the lowest point. At the bottom of the circle is not the place to be.....except, you have no place to go but up.

Yes, everything is always cyclical, that's why they had pocket calculators in ancient rome.